Herman Cain "If You Don't have a Job and You're Not Rich, You're To Blame (VIDEO)

That's because you are paying your employees too much. Try paying them Godfather's pizza wages. You'll be rich in no time. ;-)

So how much do you think a pizza maker should be making? Im sure Cain wouldnt mind paying them 20.00 and hour, if you were willing to pay 50.00 for a pizza.

Raised by Wolves

Just what is an Uncle Tom anyway?

Im sure Cain wouldnt mind paying them 20.00 and hour, if you were willing to pay 50.00 for a pizza.

You're assuming the reasonable wage should automatically translate to an unreasonable cost to the consumer. So you blame the one who suggests the reasonable wage rather than blaming the CEO who (like you) thinks they're entitled to make an obscene profit from either the laborer or the consumer, preferably both.

The ones who have tanked the economy by siphoning a bigger and bigger proportion of the nation's wealth UP the economic food chain are 1%-ers (and 1%-er wannabes) like Cain. His only agenda is going to be to continue to encourage policies that will enable him and people like him to continue to do just that.

I love Pink Floyd!

Me too, Shelby.

Me three

"If you succeed you are not to blame, if you fail you are to blame...." Herman Cain

I just sent $1000.00 to this campaign. He has the right mindset to put this country on the right path. Wake up America. Make YOUR way. Don't wait for gov'ment to save you.

If I say that onipup, will you send me a grand? I do not have a chance in hell of winning the presidency either.

This is the only person in this race (incumbent included) that has a spine. He speaks his mind and this is what we hoped we would see from the '08 election.

onipup

This is the only person in this race (incumbent included) that has a spine. He speaks his mind and this is what we hoped we would see from the '08 election.

Really, you want someone in the White House who speaks his mind, but whenever he speaks his stupidity shows? You wanted Sarah Palin in office because she was a "breath of fresh air", but when she spoke she couldn't get her words to say what her brain was thinking, Michelle Bachman, couldn't tell the truth if her life depended on it, but she was "just the kinda conservative we need in the white house". Rick Perry isn't a racist...but he plays one on TV, oh yeah, Bush spoke his mind and uh "you fool me once.......uhhhhh, how does that saying go again". stop it with these idiots the republicans are trying to pass off as Presidential material.

Because it's just that easy to get rich! I mean, I've done it 4 or 5 times, now! /s

It's not other peoples fault some people don't have the intelligence, a good idea, or the drive to become wealthy. Look at all the college drop outs who are now millionaires / billionaires over a good idea that took off in there bedroom / garage. They wanted it bad enough... they got it. One thing is for sure... whining about it isn't going to fix anything. I just hear a lot of jealousy in peoples posts. Time to look in the mirror and address your own shortcomings.

Shelby Davenport, YELLOW DOG D., ww-2194637 and Valkarie:

Greetings, friends. The campaign song for one of these GOP bozos should be Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage."

Thats a good one.

I love that song! It should replace hail to the chief for our current president!

Steve, Read Uncle Tom's Cabin. Then get back to me. I swear. What do they teach in English classes these days?

Get real. Getting rich is not as simple as being willing to work hard. Poverty is a vicious cycle, and it has very little to do with whether someone is willing to work hard. Working hard at jobs that pay minimum wage, or even more, is no guarantee to success. Just look at the teachers and police officers who have been laid off in the last few years, never mind their degrees, their training or their dedication to their jobs. Rich is something special because only few obtain it. If you have a $60,000/year job and think Cain is going to look out for you, forget it. He's on board with the notion that if you aren't rich (variously defined as what, at least $1 million net worth? $2 mill?) you aren't worth his time or effort. The man is clueless. Has nothing to do with race, creed, religion, gender, national origin. Has to do with limited brain power.

Raisedbywolves

So why would Cain be an Uncle Tom and Obama wouldnt?

It's the difference between being someone who has bowed to the rich to get where they are versus someone who worked to be where they are.

Plus Cain is all involved with that god on a stick and wants to inject all sorts of religious, anti-science stuff. He holds ignorant views and the mere fact that he could look at Perry's hunting camp and say it was merely insensitive rather than rail against it's name and all the other geographical names throughout the U.S. is in poor taste, to say the least.

Lastly, he is in the party that is racist to the max and continues to keep the people of color downtrodden. So, Cain is Uncle Tom Collaborator.

It's the difference between being someone who has bowed to the rich to get where they are versus someone who worked to be where they are.

You just described Obama. Cain worked to get where he is.

Get over the racial nonsense. They both worked hard to get where they are. Calling people oreos and Uncle Toms is so 70's. Can we not move passed a person's skin color? Cain does not have the depth of knowledge to be POTUS, and he tries to simplify everything to his level. We saw with Palin how shallow that is. Don't let's go down that road with Cain. Spurn him on intellect, not on skin color.

Cain does not have the depth of knowledge to be POTUS, and he tries to simplify everything to his level

He certainty has more then Obama!

really? exactly what would that be?

Has income disparity really gotten that wide? Since when has it been the rich vs everyone-else?

The sentiment that 'if you work hard and want it bad, you will get rich!" is nonsense. You know it, I know it. Some are just lucky like that. Some aren't. Most are born into priveledge with all the right connections.

I can't believe there are actually people in this country, most likely either over-priveledged spoiled snobs or incredibly stupid bootlickers, that think if you're not rich you are a lazy good-for-nothing. It's disgusting.

What do these hedge-funders, embezzlers, junk loan manipulators, funny money exploiters produce for anyone? Really? That's what they are protesting- not honest business people.

I'm not rich, my father wasn't rich - yet we busted our butts. Worked hard, got good educations, and are in honorable hard-working productive professions. Professions, though, that won't make you rich. Professions that were/are hit hard by the recession.

Capitalism was once about making the best product for the best price. It was about competition. But too long bootlickers have worshipped at the altar of big-daddy-business for their daily pat on the head. Now it's about cheaper products for maximum prices. Competition? What's that? It has become about "how can we sell this piece of foreign manufactured crap for the most money possible without returning any back into the country? It's about 'how much can we get away with?" It's not a law to lack integrity - but that doesn't justify a thing. Wall Street and its Embassy to the United States (aka the White House) are both accountable.

It's insulting, to say the least. If I could tell you to go "Cheney quote" to your faces, I would.

I thought that the great society was going to end the vicious cycle of poverty. I thought the amazing public education system was going to break the vicious cycle of poverty. I thought the welfare to work program was going to end the vicious cycle of poverty.

In fact all these have failed. In fact poverty and the disappearance of the middle class have as much to do with a lack of aspiration as it does with losing manufacturing jobs.

In the 60s people knew that manufacturing was going to reduce jobs as we increased automation. In the 70s we were told that future middle class jobs would require more than just a high school diploma. By the 80s it was obvious that computers would take over drafting and typing expertise etc. By the 90s our government acknowledged that jobs in manufacturing were gone and not coming back ( thanx Bruce Springsteen) and that in order to be in the middle class education was necessary, perhaps even advanced degrees such as a masters.

All the while more people dropped out of school. All the while unions and Ed Schultz complain about capitalist businesses that do the best thing for their bottom line as if capitalism is only ok if it benefits all. Science programs have been populated by foreign nationals. Meanwhile American kids pass on education and use their computers to shop.

Perhaps we have told children fairytales that they can be whatever they want to be, and encouraged them to be the next LeBron James-Obama- Jobs- Gates- Jolie or Pitt. In my time we were told we could do whatever we put our mind to- but we were told to have a back up plan. Today kids strut off without a net. My biggest issue is unintentional procreation. That absolutely causes poverty.

So perhaps Cain was too simplistic- but so is saying that there is no culpability by the people left out of the American Dream.

My parents weren't rich and I worked very hard to get where I am. All the while paying taxes at the highest rates because I am not rich enough to protect myself. I thought at least I was educating my fellow Americans etc. Unfortunately, the people meant to be helped threw away their opportunities. Now I am to be ashamed that I succeeded? That somehow my success is not mine? Hogwash. There are over 100k jobs for nurses right now in this country, yet we have to import them because people would rather be poor than work in nursing.

really? exactly what would that be?

He has real word experience, can run a company, can lead, is successful, etc, etc. Obama would have trouble leading a boy scout troop. He had no experience for the role of POTUS. Community organizing and a newbie Senator who didn't accomplish a damn thing and couldn't even vote on all the issues dosen't cut it. Let alone lying to the American people, etc, etc. Obama has no backbone. Cain at least shows he does. He dosen't play the PC game and answer a question with a question. Just like Ron Paul. You have to at least respect that. Obama has been an epic failure. His approval rating among a million other things is proof of that.

Democrats need to have another option for 2012 then Obama. Even if its another Democrat. Hell Hillary would be way better a choice then him and has experience relevant to the job.

Obama is no failure. And your "no experience" BS won't work now. He has experience in the White House, Cain has NO elected experience at all. NONE.

It can be said that Cain's experience at Godfather's was disastrous. They fell behind in market share and had, almost unanimously, the worst pizza of of any of the chains. And they have one of the worst franchise agreements - between 3-8% of gross profits and they charge $1500/employee to train which is required (yes, I looked into them at one point).

So Cain is a failure as a businessman and has no elected experience and some support him for president.

I guess some would support a tree stump if it had an anti-Obama slogan carved into it.

some would support a tree stump if it had an anti-Obama slogan carved into it.

I get the feeling they would prefer a hanging tree like they have in Jena.

A question in 2.27...

There are over 100k jobs for nurses right now in this country, yet we have to import them because people would rather be poor than work in nursing.

Really?? Where?? The average nursing salary is about $75000 a year... providing you are willing to work about 60/hrs a week... Which alone is dangerous for the patient and the nurse...

I call BS on the 100K nursing job, at that wage you are talking about a certified RN, not a position you just apply for and walk into. Every nursing program I've looked at for my students is full and with a waiting list. It takes years to become a nurse, then years more to become an RM or Nurse practitioner. It wasn't that long ago the hospitals were laying off nursing staff.

Not at all. those salaries are for a straight 40 hour week. And are you suggesting that it is better not to work, be on public assistance, than work many hours for 75k? that is what it seems to say.

Himself is an MSN... He will pull in $75,000, just like a BSN. There is no upward mobility in nursing. He has been in nursing for 20+ years. Come January, he will come off orders from the military to go back to school to get his DNP/Ed, which means another 3 years of school. Why? So that he can maybe make another $25, 000 a year. So that MAYBE he can teach. Or open a practice. Or do both. Or retire someday.

$100,000 my ass.

Brite, I think that 100K is the number of nursing jobs open, not the salary.

himself = hubby

Brite is using the Irish way of speaking of another.

Did you know this about Herman Cain?

Here’s his bio:

* Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics.
* Master’s degree in Computer Science.
* Mathematician for the Navy, where he worked on missile ballistics (making him a rocket scientist).
* Computer systems analyst for Coca-Cola.
* VP of Corporate Data Systems and Services for Pillsbury (this is the top of the ladder in the computer world, being in charge of information systems for a major corporation).

All achieved before reaching the age of 35. Since he reached the top of the information systems world, he changed careers!

* Business Manager. Took charge of Pillsbury’s 400 Burger King restaurants in the Philadelphia area, which were the company’s poorest performers in the country. Spent the first nine months learning the business from the ground up, cooking hamburger and yes, cleaning toilets. After three years he had turned them into the company’s best performers.

* Godfather’s Pizza CEO. Was asked by Pillsbury to take charge of their Godfather’s Pizza chain
(which was on the verge of bankruptcy). He made it profitable in 14 months.

* In 1988 he led a buyout of the Godfather’s Pizza chain from Pillsbury. He was now the owner of a restaurant chain. Again he reached the top of the ladder of another industry.

* He was also chairman of the National Restaurant Association during this time. This is a group that interacts with government on behalf of the restaurant industry, and it gave him political experience from the non-politician side.

Having reached the top of a second industry, he changed careers again!

* Adviser to the Federal Reserve System. Herman Cain went to work for the Federal Reserve Banking System advising them on how monetary policy changes would affect American businesses.

* Chairman of the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank. He worked his way up to the chairmanship of a regional Federal Reserve bank. This is only one step below the chairmanship of the entire Federal Reserve System (the top banking position in the country). This position allowed him to see how monetary policy is made from the inside, and understand the political forces that impact the monetary system.

After reaching the top of the banking industry, he changed careers for a fourth time!

* Writer and public speaker. He then started to write and speak on leadership. His books include Speak as a Leader, CEO of Self, Leadership is Common Sense, and They Think You’re Stupid.

* Radio Host. Around 2007—after a remarkable 40 year career—he started hosting a radio show on WSB in Atlanta (the largest talk radio station in the country).

He did all this starting from rock bottom (his father was a chauffeur and his mother was a maid). When you add up his accomplishments in his life—including reaching the top of three unrelated industries: information systems, business management, and banking—Herman Cain may have the most impressive resume of anyone that has run for the presidency in the last half century.

That's pretty impressive SR! Beats Perry and Romney as far as I'm concerned.

Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics.
* Master’s degree in Computer Science.

WATCH OUT!!!! He's part of that "educated elite" that the righties are so afraid of!!!!

Yeah. I remember when a lot of wrongies dismissed Wikipedia as a "Liberal" site, and laughed when anyone cited it as a source. Then, they found out you could "edit" content, like bscrazy bachman's supporters did. Now, it's a great source for them. LOL!

Is any of that inaccurate?

sorry this is so far down the list- but there are plenty of jobs for nurses, and they hire new grads and they are ADNs making 40-50k, BSN 50-75. All depends on experience location and extra credentials. Also, shift matters. If you have folks qualified, please have them email me through newsvine, cuz I can get them a job tomorrow!!! Now, it may not be in SF but it is a good job, great bennies and good schedules!

And that was there are 100k OPENINGS for nurses in this country- not that they pay 100k. Agreed that upward mobility is limited for nurses, thatz why I took my BSN and went to med school. That isn't the answer for everyone- but it was for me. If you really want the NP I know where you can get the school paid for- but CRNAs are making 200k plus- think about it.

Directly off Wikipedia, which does allow one to create any truth one wants

Actually I derived that from his campaign website... but yes.. its on Wikipedia as well. Unless you can prove his biography on his website is bull@!$%# somehow... be sure to let me know.

Is any of that inaccurate?

I dare someone to prove to me it is but I suspect well be hearing crickets instead.

As far as inaccuracies go, 3 things jump out. Just omissions really.

* Godfather’s Pizza CEO. Was asked by Pillsbury to take charge of their Godfather’s Pizza chain
(which was on the verge of bankruptcy). He made it profitable in 14 months.

He closed 491 stores, putting people out of work. No mention of this.

* He was also chairman of the National Restaurant Association during this time. This is a group that interacts with government on behalf of the restaurant industry, and it gave him political experience from the non-politician side.

This is spin. If it walks like a duck,.... Let's be honest. He was a lobbyist.

Fails to mention his time at Whirlpool, when he was a member of the board of directors that, after Whirlpool bought Maytag, shut down a plant in Newton, IA, putting 1600 people out of work. Moved the plant to Mexico.

Why no mention of these facts?

Why no mention of these facts?

Probably because it came from his campaign website.

You're spinning nnn. Perhaps that's my fault for posing my last question. Your original question:

Is any of that inaccurate?

I pointed out inaccuracies. That's what you requested. Now I ask you. Is any of that inaccurate?

I doubt it. But it's still no surprise that he would omit those details from his campaign website.

You're assuming the reasonable wage should automatically translate to an unreasonable cost to the consumer.

$20 an hour is a "reasonable wage" for a pizza maker, an entry level job usually held by college students? Assuming full time with no overtime, that's $41,600 a year. Are you for real? My husband, a respiratory therapist who had to go to school for two years, pass state boards, get licensed, and has over 10 years experience keeping people alive makes very little more than that. And our family of four is living on that. If you can tell me where they pay their entry level pizza makers anywhere near that much, please don't keep it a secret because I'll apply for that job immediately. Please keep in mind that if they really made $20 the minimum wage, everybody else's wages would have to go up proportionately, and inflation would go through the roof. People on fixed incomes such as the elderly would be screwed. You should have learned THAT much economics in junior high school.

Why is it that with then right likes screams and hurls insults about the "working"illegal immigrants in America but can't seem to wrap their damn head around a suitable "living Wage" which will actually help to help an American family gain independence from the hated governmental system and well as eliminate the jobs that illegal immigrants come to fill. Don't you get that when to raise the lower end to a decent living wage it will push the wages of skilled such as you husband as well. Ever heard on a cost of living increase? well fixed incomes and elderly get those type raises to their incomes and doesn't the right also say that family and churches will step in and help? Well use that position to adjust for inflation.

the idea that the worker should say what they are going to do or not do, how much they will be paid and what requirements they will adhere to for a job is ludicrous. WHY are Americans pushing jobs overseas by being so selfish? there is no reason for a HS grad to make 20 bucks an hour- with or without benefits! why would anyone ever go to college or apprentice for a trade?

Michele Bachmann is calling to lower it from what it is currently.

Actually rd62, she talked about eliminating the minimum wage.

“Literally, if we took away the minimum wage — if conceivably it was gone — we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.”

Who said a worker would demand 20 dollar and hour? A suitable living wage for all should be out of reach or a country that can put a damn man on the moon. The reason that jobs are going overseas is simply ......greed. Many of these countries are in the throws of early industrialization which means the workers are essentially exploited. Look if you will at your own early industrialization history, we worked men, women and children to early graves until labor i.e. people stood up and fought for basic rights and safety in the workplace. Now many of these countries are some years off from the same sort of revolution taking place in their countries. When corporations have no place exploit the labors of humanity they will see exploitative labor as less of a draw and more emphasis will be placed on the skills and abilities of the worker. Of course all countries will always be a varying degree of industrialization so companies will always have competitive places in which to advance their financial aims but when to gets to a place when labor around the world all have a voice it will then indeed be a force to recon with.

The real issue is we American like to stratify based upon the type employment or work that we do. When we can learn to honor and respect all work and the individuals who do said labors as valuable we will do a long way to figuring out how to make our wages be at a level where those who work any job can take care of themselves and their families Since this is the only real insensitive to work for the first place.... to be able to take care of yourself and your families.

@rescue dogs62

LOL! Yeah, it's funny how even having her quotes run through the mind of a normal person will get them a little disoriented. And, I think the bidding for those jobs would go a lot lower than 50 cents an hour.

They are going to make a enough profit to survive and escape the harassment of the USA regulator agencies.

Only for a season then when the labor in these countries rise up and demand basic worker and human rights their exploitative party train will have to put into the station but you are correct in that by then they would have obtain untold riches from labor of others . You see this is essentially how all super, mega rich obtain their monies initially at least it is off the labors usually exploited of others then they set up financial market vehicles which will then make this exploited money work for them without then actually WORKING>

Mark, Tell that to the farmers and people in Alabama who are now finding that 1/2 of their help has disappeared due to the new immigrant laws there. When their crops rot in the fields do you honestly think they care who is doing the harvesting? You all have cut off your nose to spite your faces and when the rest of the countries, food prices continue to spiral who do you think we will blame? It won't be the ones who left, it will be the ones who have been on a witch hunt.

Then after you finish in Alabama come to GA and then do the same farmers here who have labor intensive crops but no one to do the labor. Then explain to the average consumer why food prices have jumped 20%.

My biggest issue is unintentional procreation. That absolutely causes poverty.

Really? My unintentional son is what got me OUT of poverty. My then boyfriend and I were a couple of carefree drunken potheads running a flophouse, when all of a sudden we had to grow up fast because of my pregnancy. We married (what a concept!), lived with another pregnant couple in the same situation, found jobs, trading off babysitting once the the kids were born a few weeks apart. Eventually we moved to a much cheaper city and took turns helping each other go back to school. Funny, but both of our extended families who had basically written us off were suddenly willing to help us because we were married with a child who were acting like adults for a change. Today my son is a college student with a job and high aspirations. Despite the "shotgun" aspect of my marriage, I'd have to say my unintended pregnancy was the best thing that ever happened to me. It isn't unintended pregnancy that causes poverty, it's irresponsible fathers and/or irresponsible mothers who refuse to marry those willing fathers who are actually trying to do the right thing. The breakdown of the family is a far more important cause of poverty than whether or not a child is planned.

Yeah you were bless and damn lucky you guys turned things around but seriously, similar situations do NOT each so well and that is simply reality.

GA Girl, yes, I realize that if they pay pizza makers $20 an hour they would have to pay respiratory therapists even more. But don't YOU get that if they raised everybody's wages, the price of all goods and services would go up as well, leaving us no better off than before and some people worse off? This is elementary economics. Suppose Santa Claus gives everybody one million dollars next Christmas. Yippee, we're all millionaires! Except that now a hamburger costs $500. This should be fairly obvious. Then again, I'm old enough to remember when a starter house in the Washington, DC suburbs could be had for well under $20K, and I think gas was about 25 cents a gallon. A doctor visit cost $20 total, so your insurance didn't need to cover that.

The one good thing about working for a restaurant chain like Godfathers is that people can and do advance, to assistant manager, manager, and then a corporate position. You don't go into it immediately expecting the big bucks. My son is working at a restaurant right now; it's his first job and has the benefit of flexible scheduling that works around his class schedule. I'm very glad such starter jobs exist, ll but they aren't supposed to be what you do when you're supporting a family.

As for my "luck", I don't think so. For starters, I chose to sleep with a decent, honorable man who had been raised with very old fashioned values as opposed to some good looking loser from the 'hood. I did the right thing in marrying him, perhaps somewhat reluctantly at first because I wasn't really what our culture calls "in love", but the love came afterwards. (Guys, if you want to be a woman's hero, try acting like a hero.) We were able to deal with our substance abuse because we simply had no choice. Besides that stuff costs money. But for the most part, it was a matter of grit, determination, and imagination. (How many pregnant couples think to share their house with another pregnant couple, for instance?) The reason it doesn't work this way for most people is because so many have grown up with a terrible, selfish set of values. The attitude is, "I will do whatever I feel like" rather than rising to the occasion, or as I see it the adventure that life sends us.

Yeah well the residual effects of a bygone time seems to still be present. Good luck with that and I bid you a fond adieu.

hey Oom, my parents shared an apartment with another couple. That didn't turn out so well. After they parted company and got their own place...that other man decided to drop by and ask my mother for help with his car while my dad was at work. He stabbed her over 17 times and damn near killed her. I was 2 at the time, and while he didn't hurt me physically, the screams of my mother haunted me for years.

My father was a cop, and since this happened in the early sixties they didn't have a lot of support and got no counseling. He blamed himself for not being able to protect his wife and sought comfort in vodka. This kind of thing can do a lot of damage to a young family. You are lucky that your situation worked out well...as most do. It destroyed my family slowly and painfully...destroyed it.

You can not generalize your own situation, even though it was very successful for you, to the general population

Funny thing, though, rescuedogs, but this was practically the norm a mere 50 years ago until the so-called feminist movement made it socially acceptable to be a cad. Something terrible has happened to subsequent generations of "men" (and I use the term loosely.) No one wants to acknowledge that the breakdown of the family, and of the very concept of personal responsibility for that matter, are probably more important factors in poverty than "corporate greed" etc. Weren't corporations ALWAYS greedy? I look at the example of my own father, who never went to college but who was a dedicated autodidact, utilizing the public library; we moved a lot as he went from job to job, but eventually he attained a professional level job with the Department of Defense. In fact he was promoted to the highest GS (government service) level you can get without a masters degree. My childhood wasn't wonderful, but one thing I never, ever had to worry about was that my parents would split up. No matter how much they fought, my father would have sooner robbed a liquor store than leave my mother, and we kids knew it. Therefore their fighting was pretty easy to ignore.

Whatever happened to men acting like men, and why can't the left understand how important things like morality and honor are to getting out of poverty?

And why can't we also look at factors such as mindless credentialism? For instance, you shouldn't have to go to college and be saddled with student loans if you can prove you have the equivalent knowledge of a college grad in a particular major. Most of my neighbors are college students. They're drunk and rowdy three days of the week since they no longer have Friday classes for some reason. This prepares you for the world of work how, exactly? I've yet to see an ad in the employment section that read: "wanted, someone to drink beer and throw frisbees."

Because companies (read corporations) want that piece of paper that colleges give you. I have 90-95% recall. I could probably challenge at least the LPN nursing boards in most states, but am not allowed to, because I haven't the education. I have the knowledge... not the education, supposedly. I have worked in the medical field for years. I am a trained combat medic for the Army. All of this means spit.

90-95% recall, the running joke when I'm waiting tables (and I do it to increase tips, and it works!) I will take an order and bet the table, double my tip or nothing, that I can get their order right, without writing it down... on a weekend... I can make A LOT of money that way.... It's a party trick.

It's also good for taking tests. I test well in school. It's also good for remembering recipes.

Even when I was in college in the dark ages, working, going to school, and doing all those things that helped me to survive... who the hell has time for joking and smoking?

In school now... I work, I go to class... I study, I'm older now, I test well, who the hell has time for drinking and frisbee... I have 2 classes that start at 0630...

You ought to be able to demonstrate what you know and be done with it. However, in the case of nursing I'm sure this is one case where government regulations genuinely do get in the way.

Are you studying to be an LPN?

This kind of thing can do a lot of damage to a young family. You are lucky that your situation worked out well...as most do. It destroyed my family slowly and painfully...destroyed it.

Fieryone, I am really, really sorry that happened to your mother, but I don't think sharing a place was to blame. Women get attacked by "friends", neighbors, husbands, lovers, and total strangers all the time, way too often. Over a 10 year period I must have lived with at least 50 total strangers, male and female, from all over the world. I'm not saying there were no bad experiences--I've evicted people for prostitution and selling crack from my home, and I was once falsely charged with a felony based solely on the lies of somebody else I was evicting--but the only time I was actually assaulted and nearly raped by a stranger was when I had my own apartment and lived alone. There are actual cases in which a woman was raped and murdered on a military base, which should be the safest place on Earth. Unfortunately, there's just NO lifestyle that is guaranteed to keep you safe.

The real issue is we American like to stratify based upon the type employment or work that we do.

Which is why I generally refuse to discuss employment when someone asks what I "do."

How I earn my money doesn't define me. Nor should it define anyone.

Am I studying to be an LPN?? HELL NO! First off, they don't pay an LPN what they are worth. Secondly, they don't pay a CNA what they are worth. Thirdly, after having run an Adult Family Care Home for 6 years, I am SO freaking burnt out on the Health care professions, that I will NEVER EVER go back.

I am in culinary school. I am doing something that I love. My goal is to open a restaurant, someday. Yes, I know that only 1 in 3 restaurants make past the first 3 years, and yes, I know that it takes a minimum of $500,000 in capital to start. But you know what?? In my mind, it beats the hell out of dealing with nurses who think that they are better than you because they can put an RN or BSN after their name...

Minimum of 3 years from now... and we are looking for investors... :) Himself has to get through his DNP program first... starving student thing, you know... though the Army is paying for it... LOL

Which is why I generally refuse to discuss employment when someone asks what I "do." How I earn my money doesn't define me. Nor should it define anyone.

Amen! I like to answer the question, "what do you do" with "about what?"

I have a brother that lives in a small town in Michigan suffering from auto plants closing it looks like Iraq or Afghanistan.

Hey Fed up with Republicans;

I have a feeling Iraq and Afghanistan look better than your brother's area - we've been building their country for 10 years while our country has been rotting from the inside out. Republicans would rather build a school in Iraq than help American children go to school here. Shame isn't it. :o(

Well say Beirut then.

I wonder how many sclools theyve built over there in the last 3 years?

rescue dogs62

Lynn,

While I agree with you,

Rethuglican/Teaturds of today

Is a CoH violation.

Actually no it's not cause she didnt single out a specific newsviner as being one, just as you would go on one of Grims, Aqua Surfs, or Cornhusker4Palins thread and you'll see "libtard" all over it.

Rescue, is Baggers "bowling for trolls?

Thanks, Rescue.

rescue dogs62

chucky,

It's called troll bowling. I don't care what Cornhusker allows on her seeds, I call them the way I see them., and this is my seed. When you slander an entire group it's a CoH.

Oh I'm sorry....I thought when you said it was a CoH violation, I didn't know you meant a rescue dog62 CoH violation. you may wanna clear that up when you start a seed, because most of us are unaware of this CoH separate from the one we are already asked to follow.

RD is correct! I have seen Tyler suspend people for saying even less!

someone got a suspension for saying "snookums" once...I kid you not!

So I guess its the people who were employed there fault that they closed those plants and left?

I was in Youngstown, Ohio the day they closed the steel mills forever. Thousands lost their job in one day. Yes, people were mad as hell, even bitter but most got on with life. Guess what? That's when you think about moving to wherever the jobs are. I didn't say there's no hardship associated with it. I've lived that life. I've had to rent out a house and be an unintended long distance landlord because I couldn't sell it. (You DON'T want to be a long distance landlord.) But you survive.

Not everyone in life will be rich either. Doesn't make them some dog either that people are to look down on with their superority attitudes

In that I agree with you. And it isn't just money; I know people who are horrified that their son or daughter wants to go into a trade, even though there are high paying jobs available. They'd rather they get a useless degree in something like art history. I don't think Mr. Cain intended to insult the poor, but to even come across that way is a bad idea to say the least.

I don't have the facts.....precisely, Mr. Cain. He said this as he licked his greasy pizza fingers!

“I don’t have facts to back this up, but I happen to believe..."

Isn't that the definition of delusion? I certainly wouldn't be bragging about that as a Presidential candidate.

That's not just delusional, it is becoming typical Republican speak. Facts don't matter. Let's say what we think and see if it sticks.

Whenever today's gop/teabbaggers say anything at all - we should think in our minds - "Not intended to be a factual statement" and move on.

Cain is just proving to be an ignorant, mindless tool of the gop.

Brite, I clicked the "up" a hundred times - only got one, though!

Either way the President would still be black.

Then, we'd have to follow Dr. Martin Luther King's advice to judge not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their characters.

The area of difference between Herman Cain and Barack Obama, you could drive a starship through.

Rank on Rank

Then why are the Republicans beginning their efforts to undermine Cain and keep talking about giving that ignorant racist from Texas a second look.

I will answer for you the Republicans want a white President

It is obvious Cain is running circles around both Romney and Perry but Republicans tried to get Christie to run.

Wasn't Cain good enough or does the nominee of your party just have to be white.

He has to competent, obvioulsy not a requirement in the democrat party.

He has to competent, obvioulsy not a requirement in the democrat party.

Maybe you should proofread your next comment about anyone needing to be competent.

Wow.

How...mature.

Steve.. you would really support someone who said that his own community... the Black community, is brainwashed, into voting Democrat. That's like saying that the Black voter is stupid, uneducated, and down right ignorant. That they would vote for him because he is "authentically Black".

I find that insulting to the Blacks that I know.

douglasaq

Tea Baggers, baggies, republithugs, etc., etc., need I say more. You dont like to be called names, dont call anybody else names.

Brite

The only reason the blacks voted for Obama is because he is black, Hillary was by far the better candidate. How long do you think its going to take before the blacks start to "Tom" him.

Wow... don't think much about the Black community, do you?

Lynn said:

This is the exact attitude of many Rethuglican/Teaturds of today.

And I get collapesd for "democraps", how typical.

Brite

I think they vote for people who have been making them the same promises for the last 40 years, they make them right before an election, and forget them right after the election. Democrats know the blacks vote as a block and not as individuals, Id like to see them vote as individuals, and if they vote Democrat, fine, but I would like to see them decide for themselves who to vote for and not just vote Democrat because thats what they historically do. The thing Id like to see blacks ask themselves, after all these promises, whats changed?

Steve-2081387

douglasaq

The only reason the blacks voted for Obama is because he is black, Hillary was by far the better candidate. How long do you think its going to take before the blacks start to "Tom" him.

How many blacks did you ask, to come to that conclusion? cause you didnt ask me.

The only reason the blacks voted for Obama is because he is black, Hillary was by far the better candidate. How long do you think its going to take before the blacks start to "Tom" him.

How many blacks did you ask, to come to that conclusion? cause you didnt ask me.

hmm, well, here's a couple of Dem saying that. Sorry, I guess Steve should have asked you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXjG6DkFk6o

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelle-haimoff/vote-for-obama-because-he_b_120202.html

hmm, well, here's a couple of Dem saying that. Sorry, I guess Steve should have asked you.

LOL...he also said this

“This is the effort that we are seeing of Jim Crow. Some of these folks in Congress right now would love to see us as second class citizens. Some of them in Congress right now with this Tea Party movement would love to see you and me… hanging on a tree,” Carson said at a Aug. 22 Congressional Black Caucus Job Tour even in Miami.

nice try on the second link....because if you actually read the article, she is making the argument of why not vote for him because he's black becase some white wont vote for Obama because he's black. Nice try though.

Oops, you are correct about the Huffington post, wrong link. Try this one:

http://politics.salon.com/2008/02/26/obama_39/

I actually remember a black Pub commentator on Fox who, when asked if he would vote for Obama said he probably would, just because he was black - I think it was a rep strategist....can't remember his name.

And your source for that comment from Carson?

hmm, well, here's a couple of Dem saying that. Sorry, I guess Steve should have asked you.

I've never heard of Michelle Haimoff, but I have heard of Kevin Jackson. What makes you think he's a "Dem"? He is, among other things, a contributor to the far, far right "Taki's Magazine", along with people like Pat Buchanan, and the "rational racist" Steve Sailer.

yeah, it may have been him. The point being a black man (Jackson)so far right admitting that he would vote for someone so far left strictly on race alone. I think you are confused with my comment about Rep Carson (first link on 9.15).

Nope, that isn't him..I remember what he looks like just don't remember his name....oh well.

Headed out, I have an early morning. Have a good night.

The point being a black man (Jackson)so far right admitting that he would vote for someone so far left strictly on race alone.

You linked two videos that you said showed two "Dems" say that "blacks" voted for Obama only because he's black. I just watched the video again, just to make absolutely sure, and Kevin Jackson didn't admit that he would vote for "someone so far left" on race alone. How did you get that from the video? But that's not really the point- the point is, he's certainly not a Democrat.

nice try on the second link....because if you actually read the article, she is making the argument of why not vote for him because he's black becase some white wont vote for Obama because he's black. Nice try though.

Oops, you are correct about the Huffington post, wrong link. Try this one:

Aren't they both saying the same thing, basically?

I actually remember a black Pub commentator on Fox who, when asked if he would vote for Obama said he probably would, just because he was black

I wouldn't be surprised. I've said it before- the group of people who can most credibly be accused of voting for Obama for no reason other than his being black are black Republicans who voted for Obama.

Problem is we have created a generation that has been handed everything in life. The latest clothes, latest gadgets, games, etc. and they never had to work for it. The are soft and lazy period. Some dropped out of school for various reasons, some never paid attention because getting good grades was for geeks and they were way to cool for that. Then they found out cool does not get you into college. In addition, some found out when they went to college it is not high school where once an honor roll student is now a "C" student in college. They find out the Public, Government run, School is not as good as they thought, they did not prepare them for college at all. Just like in California, honor roll students failed an exit exam and instead of finding out why the Public School system lowered the standards. It is no secret we rank at the bottom of 34 countries in reading, science and mathematics while paying the most in dollars for it. You would think teachers protesting on Wall street right now would be in the classroom preparing the children for the world that is ahead of them.

Our society is setting up kids to fail from birth to adult. In addition, the reality is now sinking in. The reality created by our government, the reality of no high paying blue collar jobs because we have taxed and regulated them out of this country. The reality that you no longer can make it to a comfortable middle class life unless you work hard and have a secondary education. That is the reality. We have managed through unintended consequence to create a class of government dependents more than anytime in our history. And you are not going to get rich on a government check.

some of the generation you speak of have gone off to fight our wars, some are gainfully employed without a degree. This "the kids these days" meme is the same old bunk it always was.

there are more accessing welfare programs because of the economy and lack of jobs...but this isn't a generational thing it is a lack of jobs thing. The one's in my area that are having the toughest time finding work are those over 50...degree or not.

your local schools are not federally run, they are run by your local school boards, you know the ones that have been laying off teachers, and deciding that 25 or 30 or more students per class is ok. The ones that decide that Thomas Jefferson wasn't all that an important figure and that creationism should be taught in science class.

This generation has seen CEO wages quintuple while other wages remain flat, they have seen their nation assaulted by terrorists grew up with two wars being waged and right at the beginning of their careers are faced with layoffs and unemployment. Now they are told that not only are they lazy but that they also do not pay enough in taxes while those folks that have gotten the five-fold increase in pay should pay less. Yet you wonder why they would protest. They are not asking for a hand out.

When did Romney say that?

Vouchers would allow parents to decide what's most important for their particular children. I sent my older son to a private high school with TINY classes-there were only five to seven students in each class. This was very important for him for various reasons. But another teen might prefer a college-like high school with two thousand students, large classes, and lots of choices. Why not accommodate both by issuing vouchers? I was lucky enough to get a scholarship for my son. Most people are screwed no matter how lousy the local public schools may be, because that's their only choice.

Wasn't Cain good enough or does the nominee of your party just have to be white.

Now, that's just plain ugly. The Republicans obviously wanted Christie because they thought he had the best chance of winning the actual election.

Why should you get a voucher for you to go to a private school?

Can I have vouchers to buy books instead of use the library? To use a toll road instead of a freeway?

If you want more than what is provided for free, you pay for it.

If you want more than what is provided for free, you pay for it.

It's not free. Everyone's tax dollars pay for public schooling. As a parent you should have the option to opt out of the @!$%#ty public school system that is in most places.. and use what you pay into it.. or the "per kid amount" to shop around for an online or private school for your kid or alternative program. That would at least get the public schools in gear to be more competitive thus rising the bar. The Government at the Federal Level shouldn't even be managing public education to begin with AKA Dept. of Education. It's a State / Local community decisions and matter. The one size fits all approach is failing our kids.

There is nothing free for anything Jones. Somebody is paying for it somewhere.

opt out of the @!$%#ty public school system that is in most places..

I agree. You have a right to put your kids in private school.

and use what you pay into it..

Nope. Not a chance. You don't get to opt out of the commons. You cannot opt out of police or fire service, though you can certainly pay for private protection, just don't ask the rest of us to subsidize your desire to go it alone, and taking money from the general funds is asking us to subsidize it. By your argument, people witthout kids whould just get the money for the schools which is a percentage of their taxes handed to them as a gift. It's idiotic. Why should childless people pay for your kids to go to private school? That's what you are asking others to do.

And the majority of schools would be much better if teachers were allowed to teach and parents didn't just use the schools as day care centers while every adult in the home was required to work due to lack of living wages.

Why should you get a voucher for you to go to a private school?

Why should there be public schools at all, any more than we have government run supermarkets? The government will give you food stamps if you meet the requirements, but you get to use them at the nongovernment groceries of your choice. This is the most efficient way to help the poor, obviously. Otherwise we would have Soviet-style grocery stores where you had to stand in line for hours only to find they were completely out of meat. Can you imagine the rage if they passed a law that people may only shop at their neighborhood grocery and nowhere else, no matter how lousy that store happened to be? And if all the store employees belonged to a powerful union that had one of the two major political parties in their pocket plus their own cabinet department, so they could do everything possible to protect their monopoly? Meanwhile you'd stand at the register for half an hour in a silent rage while the clerk made personal phone calls or chatted with the other clerks instead of checking you out. It would have to be a SILENT rage because you wouldn't want to be suspended or expelled from the store. Self checkout registers would of course be banned. That is basically the situation we have right now with the public schools. I must live in a big city because I cannot drive for health reasons, therefore my children should deserve to suffer by attending rotten, dangerous schools? What kind of logic is THAT? After several bad experiences, and after experts at the university told me my 5th grade son was reading at a first grade level, I convinced my husband to agree we'd take the kids out of school. I was lucky enough to be able to use cyberschools, private schools, and homeschool, based on the needs of each child, but I really feel for all the poor minority parents in the neighborhood who cannot even dream of this. Why shouldn't they have access to vouchers?

Public schools may have served a purpose 50 years ago when there was general agreement about basic values and morals, and when the main purpose of schools in working class neighborhoods was to prepare kids for the blue collar union jobs that still existed. Today is an entirely different story. Nobody agrees about anything beyond the most basic of commonalities, like "its wrong to rob a bank." It is virtually impossible to educate kids without charges of indoctrination, unless you make things so vague and bland that practically everything more controversial than the multiplication table is off limits. And there are people who don't believe kids should be forced to learn the multiplication table either. The best way to stop the cultural wars is to simply give parents more choices. I guarantee nobody would care about any sort of "gay agenda" or "left wing agenda" if you simply left their kids alone. And their guns, I suppose. Conservative Christians would prefer to live in their own little world anyway, sort of like the Amish. Why not just let them?

Why should there be public schools at all,

Because schools benefit all and modern societies educate everyone for progress. As soon as schools are only available for the haves, you end up with a society of illiterates. I know that would be preferred by the right, but it would be bad for society.

Show us one modern society which does not educate their youth as part of the social contract. Just one.

OMG Grae, if we have to explain something as basic and pubic education and highlight it's benefits to society then it is official the world has truly gone mad.

Who said the right want a modern society? They want an upperclass (they call them job creators) and an underclass (aka indentured servants).

Well that makes sense because then education would no be needed cause we all know "book learning" only makes people think above their station.

I am so @!$%#ing tired of the argument that public schools are so terrible. If they are so bad, why were we producing world class scientists, doctors, geneticists, mathematicians, teachers and even farmers? It's because we treated all people as equals when they walked through the doors of public schools. It's only since the era of lack of parental participation (and yes, private school parents tend to be more participatory) that grades and world comparative test scores have dropped. It's also the elimination of funding for new technology, books and even the arts that are killing our schools.

While we are cutting arts, the Chinese are asking our teachers to come over there and teach them about art in schools. Why? Their kids do things by rote and the arts teach kids how to think and see things differently. We were the creative ones because of the arts, not in spite of them. CONs keep proving they are anything but conservative, they are reactionaries.

Because schools benefit all and modern societies educate everyone for progress. As soon as schools are only available for the haves, you end up with a society of illiterates. I know that would be preferred by the right, but it would be bad for society. Show us one modern society which does not educate their youth as part of the social contract. Just one.

You totally misunderstood me. I agree that education must be universal and publicly FUNDED but that doesn't mean the government must run the schools themselves! There are several advanced European countries that DO have a voucher system in place. In a small rural community, it might be necessary for the government to maintain a school, and I wouldn't mind if the current public schools continue in existence, but they should be only one alternative. People should be allowed to register for any public school in the state that has room and that they can get to, no more "savagely unequal" monopolies. People should also be able to take that voucher and use a private school. Again, it's exactly like my food stamps analogy; government pays for your groceries, but it doesn't run the stores. Or perhaps it would be better to think in terms of Medicare and Medicaid. The government pays for your health care, but that doesn't mean you can only get care at the county hospital.

Grae, I see a Mulberry Bush with this one.

I am so @!$%#ing tired of the argument that public schools are so terrible

Actually, the public schools are very, very unequal, and you are required to enroll your child in a school based entirely where you happen to live. Some schools are TRULY terrible. I live in the middle of a big city where kids get raped, beaten, even shot to death at school. Such things don't make the national news the way Columbine did because no one gives a damn about working class urban people like me. If they are minorities, they give even less of a damn. And I am so #@$*& sick of people who pretend to believe in equality tell me I should move to the suburbs, which would be totally impractical, far too expensive, and I'd hate it. People deserve a choice. Why is choice only a virtue when you are deciding whether or not to end a life, but not when you are educating the live, born child?

Don't forget, too, that there are entire departments in most universities where English isn't even the main language. If not for foreign students, you wouldn't be able to fill classrooms in many technical fields. Our universities would be in "deep doodoo" without the foreigners, because there aren't enough smart Americans who are willing to work hard.

Who said the right want a modern society? They want an upperclass (they call them job creators) and an underclass (aka indentured servants).

Grae, that's exactly what we have right now since the schools vary in quality so much. People like me who want more school choice are the ones who are trying to END the inequality. Please read "Savage Inequality" by Jonathan Kozol. Things have only gotten worse since that book was written.

I think it made it very clear in my original post on this issue that I was for universal government funding of education, just not government-run schools. The fact that several people misunderstood that says volumes about how our schools aren't even teaching something as basic as reading comprehension.

You have a link on that European model??

Vouchers don't pay the entire tuition, in fact it's been shown that the cost of tuition increases in relation to the off set of the vouchers.

That's a technical problem that can be easily solved. For instance, they can make it a requirement that the private schools accepting vouchers aren't allowed to charge anything additional. I agree that some American voucher proposals have been poorly thought out, but somehow they make it work in Europe.

Here's one for Sweden. I think most of the Scandanavian countries have some version of it. Decades ago the Danes made it very easy for any small group of parents to start their own school and get government funding for it, but I don't know the current status of that program. Anyway:

http://www.american.com/archive/2008/february-02-08/look-to-sweden

If you are looking for real equality America is probably the wrong place for you to search for it. I reject the notion that ALL public education is BAD as with any institution there is always room for improvement. It seems to me our public schools seem to diverge mainly along social or economic lines. Meaning the poorer or low income are the more likely your children are to relegated to poor performing schools and vice versa. In my state you can actually move your child out of district if the school in a poor performing school and there are no better performing school in your district. Well in theory that sound really great however in reality is essentially bullpuckie because out of district schools are usually miles away from where you actually live and work so your child would have to rise before the cock crows and then make the same track home hours after other kids are home. Let's not even address the fact that you need to find a way to get the kid to and from the better performing school. So for obvious reasons this is rarely taken advantage of because it simply too much of a hardship on low income families. I currently live in a great area with great performing schools but with very little diversity but a lot of overcrowding. My neighbors want the best of everything and every convenience at their finger tips but when the county asked to institute the SPOLISH which in and additional penny of sales tax to pay for the 3 new schools we need the idiots turned it down so we have over crowding and poorly paid teachers but still excellent schools for now. GA also offers free Public on-line home schooling with state certified teachers on-line for free which I take advantage of because I work from home. My point is education will be unequal a long as society is and as parents you have to make choices and sacrifices based upon what you think is best for your child but public education is not inherently bad or should be done away with. Most of Americans are a product of a pubic school education.

AEI - There's a "balanced" look at the world. Who's on their front page but Jonah Goldberg.

I'll take a pass on their take on anything.

Here's an interesting take on what happened in Sweden by a Swarthmore student with references -

A telling example of this Swedish exceptionalism can be seen in Swedish schools' treatment of immigrant students. Because the school choice reforms were designed to pressure schools into increasing their cost-effectiveness, many schools responded by cutting services to students who were more expensive to educate. For example, nearly a quarter of all special education teachers in Stockholm were eliminated as a consequence of the school choice reform (Carnoy, 1998). Immigrant children were spared a similar fate, however, because Sweden's national bilingual education policy guarantees home language instruction for all students. Services targeting immigrants, while undoubtedly expensive, were completely preserved. This is unlikely to occur in a country that does not have such a progressive bilingual education policy, however. The consequences of a school voucher system could be disastrous for immigrant students and other already-marginalized groups in other countries if safeguards protecting their resources are not in place.

Conclusion

While increased school choice would theoretically improve schools and enhance social equity, in Sweden, vouchers have accomplished neither of these goals. The first goal of improving the quality of education has been undermined by the tendency among parents to choose schools based on inappropriate factors such as the status of the enrolled students rather than factors such as pedagogy and curriculum. The second goal of furthering social equality by providing less privileged families with choices comparable to those already enjoyed by the privileged has been hampered by the fact that equal vouchers do not bestow equal choice: disparities in geography and social capital still make a difference in families' abilities to exercise choice. Finally, Sweden can in some ways be considered a best-case scenario because its long-established welfare state may have buffered some of the ill effects of the reforms. Other nations should take caution, because they may find that voucher systems in their states will result in an even more drastic erosion of educational equality.

Google "Daun, H. (2003). Market Forces and Decentralization in Sweden" for more books and articles based on actual research and not right wing conjecture.

Every single thing you posted in happening in my area. YEP! that is exactly why our schools are overcrowded. There was some much status hawking by the parents which trickled into to bourgeoisie clicks with kid and young a 1st grade. The parent are over Involved in the school until it became a social outlet for the stay at home mom. They nearly had a stroke when the school mentioned going to uniforms. I had enough and jumped at the chance for the public home schooling which GA paid for with the stimulus money for OBAMA. I have my child engage in others social activities like dance and soccer and home school meetup so she misses nothing but the drama.

My point is education will be unequal a long as society is and as parents you have to make choices and sacrifices based upon what you think is best for your child but public education is not inherently bad or should be done away with

Not true. There is no reason society couldn't put MORE resources into schools in poorer neighborhoods where the kids really need it. If poor education were simply a matter of not having money, then how do you explain the success of Ashkenazi Jews, who managed to be highly educated while living in poverty in walled European ghettos? Jaime Escalante and others have proven that disadvantaged minority kids from gang ridden neighborhoods can accomplish amazing things if someone just cares enough. I can't help thinking you are still basically blaming the victims by saying it's their fault for not moving to a place with better schools. I don't buy that at all; I have a perfect right to live where I choose, not to mentioni very good reasons for doing so. Besides, I think just living in a very diverse inner city neighborhood is an education in itself. We've often utilized services such as tutoring from the local universities a few blocks away.

The cyberschools you speak of were pioneered here in PA, I believe, and certainly that's a start in the direction of choice. I must point out though that it really shouldn't be called "homeschooling" which implies independence from the state; cyberschools are basically just virtual public schools and are subject to the same regulations as the brick and mortar schools. I suppose there's no need to abolish existing public schools, but they should be just one choice among many. Vouchers would force the schools to compete, which is the only way anything improves. The wonderful brick and mortar public schools you speak of (but don't send your own kids to) wouldn't lose students if parents are happy with them. The schools nobody wants to go to deserve to be closed.

Mulberry Bush adieu!

Grae, This is from the same bunch that complains that we lag behind China, India and other countries in Math and Science. Have any of you that advocate for private schools, ever checked out the amount of accomplished and educated people who attended public schools? You are advocating for class warfare and you really need to be careful, you just might get what you want.

Exactly. Requiring the rest of us to pay for their private education is class warfare. Send kids to private schools, but don't ask me to pay for it through vouchers nor in discounts to the taxes you owe. I have no problem with credits for higher education, they should not exist for people who choose to go outside the system.

Everyone's tax dollars pay for public schooling. As a parent you should have the option to opt out of the @!$%#ty public school system that is in most places.. and use what you pay into it.. or the "per kid amount" to shop around for an online or private school for your kid or alternative program.

If one chooses to opt out of what is provided, it is on them to pay for it.

You are not entitled to more at the taxpayers' expense.

Also, would you support demanding that all private schools admit all who wish to attend? If they are accepting tax dollars, they better be willing to take anyone who wants to attend that school. Otherwise, it is discrimination.

How about me....I have no kids....don't want kids and hopefully will never have kids. My taxes still pay for other people kids to go to school. You don't hear me complaining about that.

It's called having a "social responsibility" to the community around you.....that is something righties don't understand.....and throwing a 20 into the plate on Sunday doesn't count.

Righties donate more time and money to charities and community service by far then lefties. All studies and data to prove it. So you can spin the social responsibility bull elsewhere.

Throwing a 20 into the collection plate shouldn't count as charity, and neither should sending money to Queen Palin.

Get rid of the church giving and spending time with other bible beaters saying they are doing charity work by evengalizing. That doesn't count either. Neither does giving your old clothes to goodwill

SR, I thought the bible taught don't let one hand know what the other hand was doing. Only a Pharisee gives and boasts about it. Am I wrong?

Righties donate more time and money to charities and community service by far then lefties. All studies and data to prove it.

what studies? I've seen this comment before, but no one ever backs it up with a link.

fiery,

They don't know where the link is, it's a stand alone complex. In any case, all it prove is that righties keep track of what they give better. They report it better, likely so they can trot it off to prove that they are a) morally superior!, b) that they are GOOD christians, and/or c) for the tax breaks! Unless I'm donating something huge like a car, I wouldn't itemize it. Does it matter that I've given clothes, time, and money to charities without keeping a log, no.... to them if I don't have it written down, it doesn't exist.

I had to do community service for college, and I had no problem with doing it. I just could not remember to bring my sheet in to be signed. Eventually, I got my hours, I probably donated as many hrs as I got credit for but ::shrug:: it's only time and work, ya know?

One study by a right wing think tank in 2003 does not equal all studies. They also lumped tithing in to the mix (required by some churches to stay a member). Time donated was also discounted frequently. It was a poorly done "study" with a rather biased agenda.

Rhally and Grae, you are both right.

Try changing state tax laws to entise manufacturers to stay in the US rather than shipping jobs overseas. Give comanies incentives to stay.

GG

Give them incentives to stay rather than reasons to leave.

you probably pay both a higher rate, and a higher total bill. I know I do, and I ain't nowhere as wealthy as Cain- HOWEVER- I am not against hard work, and I am glad I had the wherewithall, and the ethic to work hard!! Others on this post have said that it is not worth working 60 hours a week for 75k!

60 hours a week is routine workload. That is if I get to take the weekend off. However in the next 10 years hopefully it will pay off and I will be able to work 30 to 40 hours a week and let my younger associates get some experience.

Every associate in a CPA firm or Law firm is expected to put in at least 50 hours otherwise you will get fired. If you do not put in 60 hours do not expect to offered a partnership during your career there.

I am amazed how many of Americans do not live in the real world.

By brother in law is a machinist. He makes a good living he has a marketable skill, but since it is a higher level blue collar skill he they often work him 50 hours a week. if does not want he hours they find someone else that will do it and he can find a slower paced job some place else.

Absolutely Mark!!! I spent my time doing 80 hours a week for less than minimum wage. Now I do 60-80 routinely, but for better pay. The union issue of a 40 hour week, the Euro idea of limiting the work week to employ more people is just not the American way. And if 75k barely puts food on the table, your table is too high!! So are your taxes!

Do you want to 'owe your soul to the company store?'

Most nursing unions fight for patient safety, not for better wages... odd that. But... who cares. Let's not hire more nurses... let's just increase their patient loads. After all... they're only nurses.

Damn soap box... keeps following me...

Or flee nursing completely... And then there;s the whole "nurses eat their young" vibe. And they do... a lot of older nurses will throw the younger newer nurses under the bus. And that's coming from the not wanting things to change.

As a CNA, I see the worst and the best in nursing. I've dealt with nurses who think that they are better than I am, because they are "so much more educated" (according to Himself, I could and should challenge the nursing board to at least get my LPN... NOT happening!) or the nurse that respect the fact that I spend more time with the patient, and can give report.

I'm out of the profession, now. And happier than I have ever been. My last job was running an Adult Family Care Home. 6 residents. I loved my people... I hated my Hospice nurse. I loved my NP, and my agency nurse.

My Hispice nurse tried to get me fired, because I told her that one of my residents was dangerously over medicated, and that I didn't feel right, keeping him that way, and if that was how they wanted to treat him... then they needed to remove him or have Hospice completely take over his care. Hospice took over his care... he was dead in less than 3 days.

While I believe in Hospice with all my heart... that nurse SUCKED MOOSE!

Himself on the other hand... would make a great peds nurse! He thinks I'm crazy... He usually works med/surg or ICU...

U R right wages is third on the list. Better Nurse patient ratios decrease catheter infections, Central line infections etc. There is no bonus for staying at the bedside. And the politics suck. Unfortunately that has not changed since 1991. Even with increasing numbers of unions-hmmmm.

I can put food on the table and get by working 20 hours a week. If didn't not want to live in a safe neighborhood, if I was snot concerned about the surrounds of my children's welfare.

I could work 30 to 40 hours a week and be someones employee and live a little better or forgo my children's education as a priority and move to a rural area of the state.

However, if I want to send my kids to the best school, give them the finer things in live, prepare them for the best college, and enjoy a couple luxuries. Fund their future college funds, provide for my own savings, pay for the house I have that is really bigger than I need but I figure in 5 to 10 years my folks are moving in with me.

Oh yeah make sure I got all my bases covered so the dozen or so people that work for me have a job tomorrow, and the hundreds of employees that are employed by my clients have a job tomorrow, then that takes 60 to 80 hours a week.

I am not gripping. That is what I do. I provide, I like my career, I take it serious, but I have a good time doing it. I am one of the evil rich you liberals want to tax a little extra. Here is a little secret I am not rich. I am leveraged to the eyeballs I live check to check I just get bigger checks.

Granted in 10 years if I keep on track and keep my nose to the grind stone i will be in great shape.

You be grudge me any of that? just because you do not want o work that hard? I don't blame you, it is not for everyone. My employees do not want o work that hard, that is why they are employee and not the boss.

I am tired of hearing how bad working people have it. You live in wealthiest nation on the planet. Our unemployed enjoy a standard of living that is higher than the average standard of living in western Europe. CEO's of large firms sacrifice any semblance of normal life for the positions they hold. Yes they make big bucks but a high emotional and social cost.

God Bless you Mark- you are living the dream!

You be grudge me any of that? just because you do not want o work that hard? I don't blame you, it is not for everyone. My employees do not want o work that hard, that is why they are employee and not the boss.

It is this attitude I find despicable. Just because you have more money doesn't mean you work harder. Some of the hardest working people I know aren't the CEOs who sit at desks and take long lunches but those working 2 and 3 jobs just to get by.

Our unemployed enjoy a standard of living that is higher than the average standard of living in western Europe.

Blatantly untrue. But you're so invested in the TEA GOP lies that it isn't really worth discussing much with you.

BTW, if you are so busy at work, how do you have so much time to post here?

Sure- hate the rich, assume they do not work hard. What qualifies as hard work? Hours, risk, manual labor? What about the years invested in school and experience to get where you are? Oh yes, only the poor work hard, and through no fault of their own. The man is keeping them down. They never had the opportunity.

I am a tax professional. They are no loopholes except for those that bride for the favor. There is the tax code. If you have sources of income other than W2 income then especially if you own a business you need to hire a tax professional.

Spare me the straveing in America stories. If you cannot feed your kids in this welfare state you are either lazy or and unfit parent or both.

If I have a heart attack or stroke? Well I have planned for that I am well insured, that is what a responsible father does for his childern. I have put in place a will and a life insurance trust my childern and etate will be provided.

I have made and lost two fortunes so far. Lost one because I was young and dumb and had a near fatal car accident. I picked myself up and went forward.

Walked away from my second one to work part time and take care of my daughters that I had to take full custody.

I am leaglly deaf, live with daily chorinic pain, a life long brain damage mainly affecting my ability to write what my brian is thinking.

Jonesgirl -- I have time for the vine because I have no scial life, I am a single father with two daughters and have no time for social life and never re-married because i subscribe to the theory mixed families fail more often than fisrt marriages, my girls deserve better. I get to set my own hours, I sleep at most 4 hours a day, and I almost always work 7 days a week. If you pay attention you will also notice I am absent on here sometimes months at time, or just briefly sweep in to catchup.

You have a very jaded few of CEO's. Major CEO's are always working, those long lunches are where deals are made that shape the plans of the company.

If you cannot feed your kids in this welfare state you are either lazy or and unfit parent or both.

I just love how every one assumes that people who lose their jobs automatically qualify for welfare. They don't. The eligiblity requirements are quite strict. Let's look a snap for example because that's the program that is meant to feed the poor. Use this handy little tool to see if you'd be eligible if you lose your job. http://www.snap-step1.usda.gov/fns/

The SNAP program has a work requirement:

When the rule is in effect, non-exempt adults age 18 through 49 in households without children must take part in the SNAP Food Stamp Work Program (FS/WP). People in the FS/WP can only get SNAP food stamps for 3 months in a 3-year period unless they work a minimum of twenty hours per week or do unpaid community service for a certain number of hours each month.

I added the bold.

It has an attempt to work provision, and is largely left up to the case worker to turn it on or off.

Caseworkers don't get to decide which policies to enforce.

Oh yeah make sure I got all my bases covered so the dozen or so people that work for me have a job tomorrow, and the hundreds of employees that are employed by my clients have a job tomorrow, then that takes 60 to 80 hours a week.

Mark, unless I have you confused with another Mark, aren't you a single father? Don't you think your kids need YOU more than they need all the "advantages" you site? I live, by choice in the middle of a big city, in a racially mixed neighborhood some would consider a "slum". I did this for the public transportation (we only have one, very used vehicle) and so that I could homeschool my kids when they needed it for various reasons. Also because I despise the suburbs, and I wanted the kids to be exposed to all kinds of people, not just people just like them. Sure, the schools suck, but one went to a great private high school on scholarship and the other is still being homeschooled. Kids don't necessarily need what yuppies assumem is "best" but they do need their parents.

They are in their late min and late teens. i came out of semi retirement two years ago. I live in a gated neighborhood, I still have help make sure they are were they are supposed to be and when. I do a lot work from my home office. IT is great I handle a whole bank of servers across the state.

I take them to school every morning, I am home every evening. I almost never miss a dance or a game. I have good people that work for me, I can handle every single enterprise remotely from my den, the farm, or my laptop an the all POM competition.

I let career tank while they were little and need me full time. I made it work.

Thank you for clarifying. Of course being able to do some of your work from home makes a huge difference.

He came in as President in the biggest mess any president has taken on,

Really? I would have chosen Abraham Lincoln, or perhaps Franklin Roosevelt.

Who exactly is trying to take it away from you?

I paid more taxes last year than GE....

and that needs to change, but then again, you do know that Obama and GE are tight, right?

either way you look at it. It is not wealthy individuals or even companies taken your corner of the world away it is your government either directly or by corrupt arrangements like Obama and GE.

or, Obama and the unions, or Obama and anyone that wants 500 million dollar loan and contributed to his campaign.

That is not his money they are loaning it is ours.

You know GE and every other corporation and 1% er and the GOP are tight right?

Corporations like GE are tight with both parties and they have them both in their pockets.

The real question is whether he a bigger buffoon than the rest of the Republican Nominees like say Rick Perry or Mitt Romney?

You know the more this cain guy talks, the more he makes shrub look like a member of the Mensa.

Yellow Dog

Bush graduated from Yale, you cant be stupid and have a degree from Yale and an MBA from Harvard. Obama could academically be the smartest guy in the world, but if he cant solve the problems we have, do we really want to waste 4 more years on him?

YES!

Steve the answer to that is yes, because simply put - the problems that we've had have been nothing but exacerbated and made WORSE by the OBSTRUCTIONIST BS stunts that have been pulled since day 1!! Birtherism, not even veiled racism, filibusters at every turn.. The problems have a rather obvious source.

Once the TP Toddlers are removed from office and put down for a nap where they belong, and we can actually put some SANE people into congress, then you'll start seeing forward progress being made. It really is that simple.

Steve, Obama 2012!!

Herman Cain is a buffoon and has always been a buffoon. Everyone knows this, even his supporters.

That's an understatement...

No problem, you want 4 more years just like the last 4, or probably worse, knock yourselves out, its no skin off my nose.

How does a "buffon" get a graduate degree in computer science from Purdue?

By paying his tuition (or having it paid for by someone else), showing up for class and doing the required assignments.

Being a buffoon has nothing to do with his ability to regurgitate information from textbooks.

Concerned,

I'm black - and I'm attacking Cain because he is an idiot...

Concerned

Now its our turn to call them racist for not supporting a black man.

Only an idiot would believe an individual alone is responsible for their own destiny and success or failure.

Concerned

Now its our turn to call them racist for not supporting a black man.

Do you believe we're racist for not supporting a black man?

?????????????? I did not atttack the messenger. Let me explain. The comment was a response to post calling Cain an idiot. So I was explaining what the idiot Cain believes. I wear the idiot bagde witrh pride. I believe in Freedom and the responsibility that comes with it. No one on this earth owes me anything and I do n0ot owe anyone else anything. That is known as true freedom.

Actually I am called a racist all the time for not supporting Obama. So people can draw their own conclusion as to who the racists are. My point is this. Race has nothing to do with support or no n support of a public figure. yet politicians, including Obama play the race card all the time. By the way Cain himself used it. That was one point I disagreed with Cain on. But overall he is an intelligent person.

And real clean looking. Don't you think

Plants

Do you believe we're racist for not supporting a black man?

No more than youd think Im racist for not supporting a black man. I support Cain, and its about policies, not color. I dont support Obama, and its about policies, not color.

So, you really don't think we're racist for not supporting a black man, right?

I really have no idea who is or is not a racist. But I do know a lot who are called racist are not. Only the man himself knows for sure his inner feelings. But by ythere actions and words I can think to myself if they are racist or not.

Example. The view. the otehr day. Whoopie said the n-word. No reaction. Waters said the N-word a little later. A huge reaction. In my humble opinion the one that called out Waters is the racisrt in the bunch. DO I know for sure. No. But I would suspect. I am not calling no one a racist on this board. But I did make the point that I have been called racist for not supporting Obama. Just keeping it real and giving examples.

Actualy I feel to much emphasis is put on race on not on substance. Cain is a good man in his core. I feel there are few points I disagree with him on. The statements here I feel are acurate. That is all I am saying. I also feel he is not an idiot for speaking his mind.

Plants

I would imagine that you dont support Cain for the same reasons I dont support Obama, because you dont like his policies. But after all the crap Ive taken on here, and being accused of being a racist for not supporting Obama, do you really think Im not going to poke at you a bit?.....:)

Poke at...me? Why would you poke at me?