Insane Bigot Receives Standing Ovation from 'Values Voters'

They really are getting more and more nutty.

Right on Doc.

Getting nutty, I can understand. Feeling self-righteous and Christian about it, is what makes it so hard to comprehend.

I really want to be sweet but what else do you call using religion and Jesus for bigotry and hate but evil, it truly
Is. Let's remember to try and luv the stupid pukes anyway. Hug a church creepy right winger today, maybe forgive them, if you can.

My bad, they just sag GBA tonight, which is something totally new in my book. In all the Ranger games I've been to I've not once heard someone sing GBA.

I've never heard GBA sung at a baseball game ! or at any other sport event.

Is the Rangers owned by a bible thumper ?

I thought that guy left in '94?

I've never heard GBA sung at a baseball game ! or at any other sport event.

Neither had I, but while I was watching the Rangers v Tigers last night, sure enough some guy got up and sang GBA at the 7th inning stretch. Like I said, I go to MLB games in Arlington and have never heard them sing GBA before.

Nolan Ryan is the controlling owner, I don't know how religious he is.

Hey Friends, Lola, Ripley, BTCO & Chris735081.

Thanks for your support of my equal rights and recognition of GLBT (our) contributions to our country. Equality means everyone is equal.

"the homosexual agenda"

Hey, I won yard of the month in my community ! Great agenda; yard envy.

LOL!!! Congrats on your yard of the month win ww-chs-sc! Glad to call you friend.

<3's :o)

Yard of the month ?

heck , my yard needs help !!!!

Rescue Dogs 62

You've read my articles, you know I'm busy! :o))

Ouch and sympathy; been there.

pussies! I worked through fractured L5, 14 years and counting. Didn't even know it was broken till 2007, when I was in for x-rays after bouncing off the concrete from a 16' ladder slide out, (not a ride I would recommend for Disney Land) torn rotator cuff from that one (I did lose a day there). Got blown up in 2006 (yes, with fire and acetone, get your minds out of the gutter) and with the flesh pealing from my arms went back inside to put the fire out. Still ain't got any of those injuries fixed (no insurance will take me without signing over my first born and everything I own) and now I work ever day with a lateral tear in the meniscus of my right knee. Thank God for morphine and all her sisters!

And to any of the super "Christians" who claim that the devil made poppies and pot, try reading the book some time, and stop giving Lu so much power. But I digress, damn morphine..

Yeah, I had something similar to that when I was a teen. We were cutting brush in the back yard and I was using an axe, on one of the swings I made it landed wrong on the brush and hit me in the knee, I still went to work that night at a restaurant for a full eight hours on my feet and went to school the next day. I have a high pain threshhold.

Back to the article, does this guy know how racist he sounded? I wonder.

I was on topic, sort of:

And to any of the super "Christians" who claim that the devil made poppies and pot, try reading the book some time, and stop giving Lu so much power. But I digress, damn morphine..

See, the article is about a super "christian" and I included one in my post.

Now back to off topic. I was born with floating knee caps and they were constantly traveling to the left or right (yep all the way around) hurt like a mother-... Anyways I had surgery on both of them at the age of 12. Full on slice and dice, no endoscopes. Well as it turns out, morphine keeps me awake and for four days I stared blankly at a TV, and they were real giving with the drugs, as they were trying to knock me out. For the second surgery I refused the morphine, by God I was gonna sleep this time! Even with the muscle spasms And the excruciating pain they brought, absolutely no drugs, because in my mind pain is only temporary, and my threshold also is quite high.

Fast forward 30 years. I still have an incredible pain threshold, but the pain from the torn meniscus is so intense when it spikes that I have been driven quite literally to tears. And after 3 months of not sleeping, or rather sleeping for 30 minutes, crying for an hour, sleep for 30, cry for an hour, falling asleep behind the wheel every night and almost wrecking several times because of it, I caved and started taking meds. Now I can almost sleep 4 hours straight before I feel the hot ice pick, (crochet hook, drywall saw etc....)being plunged in and twisted about. The addiction sucks, but at least I can walk and work.

Back to the article, does this guy know how racist he sounded? I wonder.

In short, NO. I have several friends and some mere acquaintances, whom have started conversations with me, a half breed, with the phrase "now you know me, I ain't no racist, but since that ni***r got in the white house"..... (apparently I don't know you after all, I think to myself) and most of them never even realize how easily the vitriol rolls from their lips. How easy it is to blame the "halfrican" "Kenyan" "antichrist" (antichrist was derived from misinterpreting verses to mean a black man, just as some comedians think Jesus was a black man because he had curly hair and a healthy tan, psst, some Jews from certain tribes are kinda dark, kinda like some of my Grandfather's people, does not make us black men,,,,, oops, damn morphine,,,)

That was a well written and interesting comment.
The likes of which there are few in these parts.

That's less gubment by jebus thou so it's ok. You gotta luv the creative thinking that gets the voodoo and vodka cult princess of the Jesus machines abortion wars around enough corners for that to make sense and you all know it. So let's show them some luv for competing without executing more people then they have.

We should have gotten above paying attention to gargage like this decades ago

i think we pretty much had, but it was decades ago with the marriage of the religious right and the political right via Reagan that got us here.

if you are sane, get out and vote for the lesser of 2 evils in each election...

maybe we can accentuate the positive and call it voting for the better candidate. not 'perfect', maybe not even 'best', but better.

NO, lesser of the two evils is about correct. Herman Cain wants me to go along with "a lot of blacks are brainwashed into voting for Democrats", Michelle Bachmann wants to stick a video camera up my sisters uteris, Perry is hanging out at Niqqerhead - then forces her to watch the video, Obama just put a hit job on an American citizen killer, but he put one on Bin Laden too...

I'll go with OBAMA! Lesser! I like his jobs plan better...kill them terrorists VS...brainwashing blacks and universal uteris invasion at Niqqerhead!

When is the nezt Natzi teabate? (this is gonna get deleted)...

I hope and pray in the name of MOhammed, & John T. Baptist, that the next teabate is NOT on Monday Night...that Hank Williams Jr azzclown might force his away into the broadcast booth with all his Rowdy Friends and say "Obama and Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiden, The Three Stooges, Hitler, Netanyahoo"...

...and Steve Doocy would then be obligated to go back on FOX air and say..."that's two"...

...right after Herrman Cain repeats that "a lot of blacks have been brainwashed into voting for Democrats"...

...but I'm pretty sure ESPN would STILL say: "you're fired - IDIOT"...

...and some jackwagon will ask: "Governor Perry, you've just won...what are yo gonna do?"...

..."Im going to Niqqerhead"...

...and some jackwagon will ask: "Governor Perry, you've just won...what are yo gonna do?"...

..."Im going to Niqqerhead"...

Herman Cain and Allen West want to go hunting?

TAC couldn't resist....so do you Herman and Allen I am sure they will let you go out first after dark.

Cain ain't able and West...two of the biggest morons on planet earth - throw in Bachmann and Perry and you have a full cadre of carnival barkers.

Ah, I see the political correctness police are in the house...because I quoted what presidential candidates said and or reportedly did.

Hank Williams Jr claimed his 1st Amendment rights were violated when ESPN showed him the door - I could claim that too...and be just as wrong as a $3 bill.

But I will wholeheartedly agree that as moderator, you and/or Newsvice...or vine (that was a joke) has the power to delete me and my point of view into perpetuity (sp?)...but Hank would not...for telling the truth as I see it.

What a crazy world we live in when Americans are asked to not repeat what Hank Williams Jr or their so-called wannabe leaders on FOX says or does and then we claim to be "protectors of freedom"...who's freedom are you prtective of?

Mine? Hanks? Or BOTH?

Who's playing this Monday Night?

Ditto. I don't want you to get out of hand either. Relax, rescue and if I may ask, please stop assuming that you know what I'm going to do or say.

I would also point out...that if posters here were so offended and outraged by what I posted...at least ONE would have by now said so and requested I be deleted - or NEWASVINE would have.

But hey, freedom of speech and freedom of speach....two very different things. Where is Hank?

And to you as well.

It's sad that our country has sunk so low that we feel we have to even respond to these fake christians.

Even more sad, if not disturbing, is that the GOP candidates plan on trying to suck up to the same crowd that a speaker whose group is listed as a hate group by the SPLC appeals to.

What the hell was that exchange?

NOt one I had hoped for - but an exchange nontheless.

But, yo yo, I'm jut sayin'...It's a really stupid world when the Black Panthers (all 100 of them with NO media outlet) are considered more dangerous to earth,Batmobiles and Tuscaloosa than a Beck.

How does Nancy Reagan, at age 123, feeeeel, about this?

Did you see them black panthers? One of them had a stick or a flashlight, could have been an umbrella.

There was 2 of them out side a voting place, and when the police came and asked them to leave, they left, it was really a scary situation.

I felt much safer at the Tea Bagger events with all the high powered rifles :-/

...and RayGun said..."let them eat Ketchup"...

It has natural mellowing agents. :>)

It's good for you, it's a vegetable...

Friend of Ayn:

It has natural mellowing agents. :>)

If it's good enough for Barb and Jim, it's good enough for me.

These are the good years, in the golden sun,
A new day is dawning, a new life has begun
Love is flowing, like ketchup on a bun.

Ketchup....for the good times

:>)

It's not a vegetable, it's a vegetable by product, kinda like ignorance is the by product of the lies the republicans tell, or is that the other way around, I get so confused.
Well here's a big shout out of luv to the whckie hateful bunch at thou Jesus machine and social conservative values republicans church club meeting. You guys keep spinning them wheels, remember, you can't find sanity unless you struggle for it. You little fellas missed there but keep your spirits up ok?

It's not a vegetable, it's a vegetable by product

Whatever, its still really good on powder milk biscuits.

RD62, No it's not a republican thing, and it's actually pretty good. There is a good recipe for it in the prairie home companion cook book.

Friend, your desecrating biscuits. Sorghum, honey, butter and any jelly or jam, my personal favorite cream gravy with bits of pork sausage in it goes with biscuits. I mean I am a Democrat which means I defend your right to do what you want that's legal. But, but ,but you can't kill me like this. Ketchup on biscuits? It is inhumane.

Amen, sister rescue.

All right, that's enoughf. Don't you people get public radio?

Friend, we just kiddin.

Oh... I get it, sarchasm. I was wondering how I could get a green star from RD for the first referent, and yet not have the second understood. :>)

Not sarcasm, which can be mean, just poking fun. We like you.

Ronald Reagan said it was a vegetable

According to the ever-knowledgeable Dr. Cecil:

Ketchup and other food products are classified for different purposes by different agencies under a wide variety of federal programs. The classification in this case was by the U.S. Department of Agriculture for its subsidized school lunch program. Then as now, local school districts could receive reimbursement for each lunch served provided it met minimum standards. In mid-1981, only a few months after Reagan took office, Congress cut $1 billion from child-nutrition funding and gave the USDA 90 days--the blink of an eye, for the federal bureaucracy--to come up with new standards that would enable school districts to economize, in theory without compromising nutrition.

The USDA convened a panel of nutritionists and food service directors to ponder what to do. One option on the table--no one later would admit to putting it there--was to "accept catsup as a fruit/vegetable when used as an ingredient." Some panel members seized on this as an opportunity to discuss whether to count ketchup even if used as a condiment. From what I can tell, the motive wasn't so much penuriousness as trying to face facts about what kids would actually eat. USDA standards at the time required that a reimbursable lunch consist of five items: meat, milk, bread, and two servings of fruit or vegetables. Many kids refused to eat the veggies and the stuff wound up as "plate waste." Would-be realists on the panel reasoned that if they could count ketchup as a vegetable they could meet federal standards without having to throw away so many lima beans, thereby saving money while having no impact on the kids. Looked at in a certain light, it made sense. Ketchup wasn't the only newly permissible substitute: pickle relish and conceivably other condiments could also count as vegetables (precise interpretation was left to state officials); protein sources like tofu or cottage cheese could replace meat; and corn chips, pretzels, and other snacks could replace bread. Minimum portion sizes were also reduced, purportedly another effort to reduce waste.

Mid-level Reaganauts at the USDA saw all this as a matter of giving the states more latitude; wiser heads might have realized that the rest of the world would see it as taking food away from children. Unfortunately for Reagan, the 90-day deadline allowed no time for higher review. When the proposed new rules were released for comment in September 1981, food activists went ballistic. Democratic politicians staged photo ops where they feasted on skimpy-looking meals that conformed to the new standards. The mortified administration withdrew the proposal and the USDA official in charge of the program was transferred, a move widely interpreted as a firing. One person who didn't come out of the mess with ketchup on his face was Jimmy Carter, who'd had nothing to do with it.

So, a garden-variety goof, right? It looked worse than that, thanks to agriculture secretary John Block, an antiregulatory zealot who attempted to defend the new rules after the fact, claiming they'd been misunderstood. Nonsense; they were just stupid. All intentions aside, counting condiments as vegetables and reducing portion sizes were an invitation to abuse. A few months later the USDA adopted for preschools and elementary schools a more sensible policy already used in high schools, called "offer vs. serve"--schools still had to offer the five meal components, but students could refuse any two. In the 90s, the Clinton administration got little grief when it proposed counting salsa as a vegetable, as properly made salsa has more nutritional heft than sugar-laden ketchup.

A reprise of the ketchup fiasco loomed recently when a federal judge approved new USDA regs classifying batter-coated french fries as a fresh vegetable. Another attempt by the GOP to feed junk food to the playground set? Actually, it had more to do with creditor priority during bankruptcy settlements, believe it or not--but please, don't ask me to explain more than one bit of bureaucratic arcana at a time.

YD, not sarcasm--sarchasm.

Sarchasm: The unbridgeable gulf between the author of a sarcastic witticism--and the person who didn't get it.

WrMAllan, thank you. It is always interesting, in that OMG its disgusting but I can't look away, way, when someone pops the backing off the federal government watch, so we can all see the little gears as they grind up our society.

Friend, sounds good to me.

Yellow Dog D. BTW, thanks, I like you guys too.

rescue dogs62, glad you liked that, not mine,but appropriate many places on the vine.

Getting back to the subject of the article, sort of, here is another one I like a lot.

Ignoranus: someone who is both ignorant, and an #%&hole, at the same time.

Seems to apply to the people the article is about. :>)

Better bring a scoop shovel. But at least I'm a donkey--not an elephant

I hear from the right validations of their conclusions which they attribute to Miss Rand, and I hear from the left dismissal of Miss Rand as a rightwing crackpot. Both are wrong and perpetrate a distortion of her accomplishments. The conservatives do so by “floating” her concepts, disconnecting them from their existential content, and using them in contradiction to that content. The liberals do so by accepting those distortions as an honest expression of her concepts, and condemning their source.

At the beginning of Howard Zinn’s book “A Peoples History of the United States”, there is a quote from the diary of Christopher Columbus, which states in part, “They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance”.

To those on the left I wish to say that, yes, the conservatives are hitting you about the head and shoulders with Miss Rand’s philosophy, but what they don’t understand, and you all have apparently never learned, is that they are hitting you with the handle; having no idea how it actually works. Grab the handle, take it away from them, and stab them in their black lying heart with it.

The root of all the evils that men perpetrated on men is the initiation or maintenance of an assertion over the existence, identity, or consciousness of another.

Mine, not hers, just inspired by her.

Rescue, BTW, if you would like to know my views on Ayn and capitalism, go to the article Revenge of the gougers. I had a conversation going on there that pretty much covers it.

The short form, however, can be gotten from the following quote and statement.

"The moral root of capitalism is that each man should be the benifitiary of his own labor," so if you look out there at the world, and do not see this as the operating moral result of economic activity, then what you are seeing is not capitalism.

Friend, I have finally found the only other person on earth who understands Ayn Rand (I might let you check my gender after all). Ayn Rand has been heralded as the queen of conservatives, but she was not a conservative. Rand was an egoist. More than that, she was the mother of Objectivism. Friend, you are absolutely correct. If other liberals understood the true writings and teachings of Rand, they would see that Rand was never a conservative and would quickly denounce current conservatives, republicans, and especially the teabaggers. She would detest modern capitalism as it exists in America.

Easy rescue, easy. Two things to start. First, I never read any of Ayns works till I was about thirty five years old. I was already liberal, note that I did not say A liberal as I am referring to the state of mind, not the “philosophy,” and was more so when I understood her philosophy. Second, I do not call myself an Objectivist, because I do not adhere to her philosophy, I do not like most of those who do, and there is no way they would allow me in the club because I use the philosophy to argue points against the views of Miss Rand. The most I could claim in that department is that I am a Gnostic Objectivist—something her adherents abhor. But themost basic premise of Objectivism is that all knowledge comes from, and can only be validated by, reference to Objective reality—that is my point of view, regardless of what the Objectivists, or Miss Rand, say about anything.

As to my screen name—it has two purposes. One is that the rightwingbats assume that I am one of them, or at least that I am an ally, which makes the “look” on their face when I slide a rhetorical stiletto into their kidney quite precious. The other is that when a “lefty” pushes me on the subject, they find that they do not encounter the solid wall of adherence that they expected, and stumble forward into the realm of Gnostic Objectivism in which I want to lead them. Welcome to that club. :>)

Now as to your post. I explain selfishness with the following example.

I make it a point to always help little old ladies, or men, across the street whenever I perceive that such help is needed. There are several reasons that could explain why I do this. I could be following the social norm. I could believe in a religion that stipulates that I should. I could believe in the morality of altruism. I do so because I wish to live in a world where little old ladies are helped across the street, so I act selfishly to bring that world into being. By extension this is why I support the social safety net for those who needit. That said--there are two ways of being in the world, selfishly, and otherishly. The first works for what they get and wherever possible take care of themselves, and deal with their fellow man in that manner. The second are perfectly capable of doing so, but chose not to, and would prefer to live by hitchhiking on the virtue of those who do. In the example above, this is the perfectly capable person who sees me trying to stop traffic for the little old lady, and instead of helping in the process, uses the fact that I am doing so to facilitate their own passage, (usually with the thought that I am a sucker).

As to money being good, and the barometer of a society. "The moral root of capitalism is that each man should be the beneficiary of his own labor," so if you look out there at the world, and do not see this as the operating moral result of economic activity, then what you are seeing is not capitalism. That world out there is the barometer, and what it is registering is the level to which the operating principle of economic activity is that each man is the beneficiary of their own labor—that capitalism is being practiced. It is exactly the fact that that is not the operative principle of our economic system, which is the cause of the inequity you see in the economy.

Now economics is a big subject, and I’m just a little o’l Gnostic Objectivist, plus I do not want to take over a thread with my views on an unrelated subject, (even if you are it’s owner) so for a fuller explanation of my beliefs on the subject, I would suggest going to the article I pointed out earlier. Or if you prefer, I would be willing to send you something personally.

As to this “person” Hickman. I have no idea who he is or why she was writing about him, nor any knowledge of the notebook you refer to. Do you know for a fact that what she wrote was meant to be positive? As I say I don’t know, but is sounds to me like what she wrote was not any type of compliment she would give. It sounds more like she was calling him a sociopath. Again, I don’t know, so can only give my impression based on what I do know of her. Could you send me the reference?

Lastly, you say that you grew up with her books. Have you per chance read Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, and know what I am referring to by the process called measurement omission? If so, you will understand the following more exactly than just by what the words mean.

The root of all the evils that men perpetrated on men is the initiation or maintenance of an assertion over the existence, identity, or consciousness of another.

The root of all the good men have ever done, and the essence of hero, is not allowing an assertion over the existence, identity, or consciousness, of themselves, an innocent, and in consort with their fellow man, each other.

My work, inspired by hers.

On a personal note, I like what I have “seen” of you here on the vine, and respect your point of view and the way you express it. I really would like to send you something I have been working on personally, but do not wish to be intrusive. It has very little to do with economics, or even Miss Rand, except as inspiration, but I think you might like it. Basically it is about the two statements above, and their operation in the world. Let me know if you would like it. No sweat either way.

Hope this clears up a few things, and that you have a wonderful rest of your day.

Wow Dr T, who knew? I have been off line composing this post, so this is the first time I have seen yours. And don't tempt me about that, I walk both sides of the street depending on who I'm walking with and where we are going. Hope you like this to, and we will have to talk more. :>) :>) What do conservatives conserve? The codifications, moral, social, legal, etc, that allow then to maintain their assertions over others.

rescue, these are some of the better replies further down the link you gave.

This article is an exaggeration built on a straw man. Nice attempt at trying to link murder to freedom, but the link is not there. Murder actually is the hallmark of collectivism -- look at the countries which attempted to implement your ideal of socialized everything including medicine. From the Soviet Union to Maoist China to Pol Pot's Cambodia, the fact that communism kills is proven. Escape from the force of the collectivist is made possible only by freedom.

But back to Ayn Rand's true view of Hickman which you conveniently ignored. In "The Journals of Ayn Rand", she is clearly quoted: "[My hero is] very far from him, of course. The outside of Hickman, but not the inside. Much deeper and much more. A Hickman with a purpose. And without the degeneracy. It is more exact to say that the model is not Hickman, but what Hickman suggested to me."

Her only interest in Hickman was his unconventional attitude and the public's reaction to it. She was clearly morally against the crime he committed. All throughout her books is the moral requirement that an individual never initiate force against another -- and its philosophical basis: that the basis of an individual's life is his or her use of reason. Not force.

To leave the impression that Ayn Rand supported the crimes of a kidnapper/murderer is a baseless smear. You are on the edge of libel.

At the time Ms. Rand wrote about Hickman in her private journal, she was in her early 20's, struggling to learn English, and living on a few cents a day in 1920's Hollywood. She was physically and socially awkward, extremely introverted, and - by all accounts - an incredibly perceptive and intelligent young woman. At the time, her philosophical hero was Frederick Neitzsche - a philosopher she would later fiercely disavow. She was decades away from fully discovering and articulating her mature philosophy.

It is in this context that the young Ms. Rand - an aspiring writer - attempted to describe in her private journal the strange personality of William Edward Hickman. His bizarre, sociopathic behavior had been the subject of media stories for weeks. As she would do throughout her life, when she encountered strange or interesting people, she wrote about Hickman in her journal, tried to understand him, focusing on those qualities that could be used later as characters in her writing. She observed that Hickman MINUS THE SERIAL KILLER could be an interesting (maybe even heroic) character.

If you look at the whole context, there's no scandal here.

Further, (1) writings in her early 20's have no reflection on Ms. Rand's mature philosophy. (2) Musings in her private journals have nothing to do with the validity of the philosophy she publicaly articulated in widely-available books she published in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. (3) The character of Ms. Rand herself has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of her philosopy or any part of her philosophy.

sarchasm?

That's kind of a stretch...

(yes, I get it, but it's still a stretch)

don't you have a job, a stretch of what? These are from a word making contest I read several years ago. Join two words, adding or subtracting one letter, and come up with a definition.

Sarchasm: The unbridgeable gulf between the author of a sarcastic witticism--and the person who didn't get it.

Ignoranus: someone who is both ignorant, and an #%&hole, at the same time.

Prebutal: the argument made, against an argument that hasn't been made yet.

I know what it is and fully understand the concept.

The second and third are pretty witty.

The first, however, I consider to be a stretch... The sort of answer someone might come up with if they had two good ones, but were required to have three and were not too concerned with the quality of the last.

Let us be honest. How many people contribute to charity for the tax write-off? How many people contribute to charity because it is the "correct thing to do" at work (ie United Way)? How many people contribute to charity because it makes them seem or feel important? How many people contribute to charity because it makes them happy? These are all examples of selfishness. Do they nullify the gift to the charity? No. It is a rarity that anyone gives money to charities without getting something (even if it cannot be measured, like pride).

Now, let us look at the bigger picture of the world. Friend had it right when they stated that people do good things because they want to live in a world where good deeds are done. This is pure selfishness, with a selfless twist. I am a strong proponent of social justice. I believe we should live in a world where the poor and hungry are cared for. That is my dream of an ideal society. In order to make that happen, I must be willing to contribute to social justice programs.

Let us be honest, no one puts into medicare or social security for others. They do it in the hope it will be there when they need it. Their action allows for a program to exist that helps others, but their motivation is pure selfishness.

The most interesting aspect of Rand, that we are ignoring in this discussion, is her view of capitalism. From the Ayn Rand Institute:

The ideal political-economic system is laissez-fairecapitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The governmentacts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

What Rand was stating is that the worker should not be a slave to the capitalist. They should work and trade together for the betterment of their own needs. The government should regulate to protect the consumer, worker, and owner. Actually, if you let go of your preconceived notions of Rand's writings, you will see that she is more socialist than conservative. Unfortunately, the conservatives have been beating us over the head with a poor translation of Rand's work, and we have bought it. Rand would say that belonging to a union is a good thing because it is the right of the worker to fight for fair pay and treatment.

Hey rescue, that post you were responding to was from the replies further down the tread of the link you posted, not my work, and not directed at you. Just pointing you to them.

Basically the article you read, and posted a link to, was a smear piece that took out of context stuff Ayn was writing in a personal journal, that had more to do with literary character development, than anything else.

I am, slowly, working on a Tom Clancy type book that was inspired by 9-11, and have lots of notes that if read or quoted out of context,would probably get me a one way ticket to Guantanamo, (at least by the last administration) but I do not admire or condone terrorism.

The root of all the evils that men perpetrated on men is the initiation or maintenance of an assertion over the existence, identity, or consciousness of another.

This is my own work, inspired by her statement that... The root of all evil is the initiation of a physical assertion, (violence).

The root of all the good men have ever done, and the essence of hero, is not allowing an assertion over the existence, identity, or consciousness, of themselves, an innocent, and in consort with their fellow man, each other.

This is my work inspired by her statement that... Physical violence may only be used in defence--and that, except in emergencies, we assign our rights to assert physically over others to the government as the protector of our rights.

From just these, it is obvious that she would never condone, or admire, that monster.

Hey Dr T, The quickest reply I have about our economic views is that.. the Free, in free trade, means un-coerced. Great post!

Friend 6.45:

...when a "lefty" pushes me on the subject, they find that they do not encounter the solid wall of adherence that they expected, and stumble forward into the realm of Gnostic Objectivism in which I want to lead them. Welcome to that club. :>)

I love the way you think, and that particular paragraph reminded me of a poem by Edwin Markham:

He drew a circle that shut me out
Heritic; rebel, a thing to flout
But love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that let him in.

PJ, wow, one of very few poems Iwould recognize when I read it. I'm not much of a poetry guy.

From Garrison Keiler, Prairie Home Companion joke show---The definition of a poet: a writer--who does not write.

Here is a little gem in return.

Buddhist Barbie

In the 5^th century B.C.

an Indian philosopher Gautama teaches “all is emptiness”

and “there is no self.”

In the 20^th century A.D.

Barbie agrees, but wonders how a man

with such a belly could pose,

smiling, and without a shirt.

LOL, I love it...very clever. Thanks:)

Thanks PJ. not my work of course, (I only wish I were that clever).

It was from an English lit class ten years ago. Back story from the writer--she had bought her sons a barbie, concerned that all they had was GI Joe's. A few days latter she was really concerned when she found Barbie naked, but after watching the boys play, decided it was just as good of a missile as any of the other toys. Then her youngest pointed out to her that barbie had "really big mussels". :>)

Haha, well, if that was 10 years ago I would venture to guess that he has figured out what the muscles are by now! So, the boys had GI Joe use Barbie as a missile? All children should be so resourceful.

think this should cause the education system in America to take a really hard look at it self

Actually, the only reason these people really ARE upset is that they don't like what's being taught to their children in the public school system. So...

Vouchers. Problem solved.

Emmadog, contempt and fear, my biggest fear is one of their loons will have the power to "push the button", because God told them to do it.

Wow! Never thought about that.

I looked up how much it would cost to stay in DC for a weekend.

4days and 3 nites in a modest hotel is $850 no meals
Transportation to and from is $300
The meals have to be at least. $60/ day
Total $1700

Where do these frecks work? If I spend that kind of money I'm at a resort in the islands...

Ignorant and Proud of It.

A proud legacy to be passed down through the generations.

It's like grandma's china.

Why a trousseau is not complete unless it contains the family Bible and the family ignorance.

Sorry. His coat was blue. My mistake.

Now can you finally understand how helpless the decent people of Germany felt as they watched the rise of Nazis', and there wasn't a damn thing they could do to stop it?

The Nazis' used the cross, Nationalism, freedom, prosperity, pride, and anti-homosexual themes in all of their platforms. They even made abortion illegal to placate the Catholic Church.

Ideologically, these people may be as evil as the Nazis but they don't have an army to advance their hatred across the land. I'm certain that these people don't have a chance of gaining power but if they became a serious threat then all Americans need to stop them and defend those that suffer from violence. Unfortunately Americans are not well known for defending the rights of the minority.

Polka14

Ideologically, these people may be as evil as the Nazis but they don't have an army to advance their hatred across the land. I'm certain that these people don't have a chance of gaining power but if they became a serious threat then all Americans need to stop them and defend those that suffer from violence. Unfortunately Americans are not well known for defending the rights of the minority.

real christian terrorism in the US . snaking it's way into our government ... grooming it's self . No different than Iran.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/09/books/review/Easton-t.html

actually ? this 'college's ' goal is to groom Dominionsts for government. and their succeeding.

Patrick Henry College
From SourceWatch

The mission of Patrick Henry College, as adopted by the Board of Trustees September 28, 2002, is "to train Christian men and women who will lead our nation and shape our culture with timeless biblical values and fidelity to the spirit of the American founding. In order to accomplish this mission, the College provides academically excellent higher education with a biblical worldview using classical liberal arts core curriculum and apprenticeship methodology." The College's vision is "to aid in the transformation of American society by training Christian students to serve God and mankind with a passion for righteousness, justice and mercy, through careers of public service and cultural influence." [1]

The College's "Statement of Faith" includes, but is not limited to, the acknowledgment that "Jesus Christ literally will come to earth again in the Second Advent" and that "Satan exists as a personal, malevolent being who acts as tempter and accuser, for whom Hell, the place of eternal punishment, was prepared, where all who die outside of Christ shall be confined in conscious torment for eternity."
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Patrick_Henry_College

04 God's Next Army
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzCIduBvl1I&p=596B2A143DC53EB4&playnext=1&index=29

real christian terrorism in the US . snaking it's way into our government ... grooming it's self . No different than Iran.

Yes it is a serious threat but if they do gain power and try to undermine our freedoms then I may consider leaving the nation and abandoning my citizenship. If they were actually elected freely by a majority then an uprising wouldn't be supported by a majority even if they try to establish Christian control over our government. These people want to destroy the US and build a Christian dictatorship on its ruins.

@Polka14: You said "these folk" do not have an army to further their agenda. Not true. They are an army.

And then, there are splinter groups like "Quiverfull." The movement is gaining steam.

And as always, as the average American suffers, he will always blame those who are not responsible for his plight. And the hundred billion dollar info machine is well entrenched to make sure the average American always makes the wrong decision.

The true cult in the US are those millions of average folk who consistently and proudly support agendas that do not have their personal best interests at heart.

I take it Christine O'Donnell wasn't there...

Yosho... I am slipping.... badly it took me a minute to get it.

Yosho- Christine O'Donnell was busy at home.

No, it was a pretty accurate description of BaggerCon or was that PanderFest.

It was a Baggerfest! Bring your own kool-aid. You can carry your gun, but all brains will be checked at the door.

BaggerCon

Suddenly the stereotypical Trekkies who go to conventions but still live with their parents seem pretty damn normal.

Don't forget the prize for best Halloween costume. This year's theme is "Become Benedict Arnold".

sucking each others dicks

No they prefer teabagging.

I'm sorry Jim Jones what?

Jos, please, do tell how acknowledging gay Americans the equality the constitution demans "destroying the country"?

BaggerCon, a sort of festival for the ignorant homophobic bigot crowd.

Many, many villages have just noticed their idiots are missing.

But MOOOMMM! He called me mentally disturbed first! And it could have been an honest question. It's not like I actualy called him an @^$#&($#.

OK, toe scraching ground looking down, I'm sorry.

Just don't look at my post on the next page. I think it was OK. but...

Being a homosexual does not make you mentally disturbed. Being a homophobe does. It clearly states so in the DSM

RD 62, Thank you, and I will try to keep a civil tongue in my head. But I'm not one of those gentle "turn the other cheek" types. I'm an eye and a tooth for an eye type. If someone is coming for my eye, I will do my damnedest to take one of their eyes and one of their teeth.

If you allow people to assert over you--they will--to the exact extent to which you will allow it.

Doc, it depends on what year your volume was printed. But thank you.

Actually, homophobia is currently a mental illness.

Doc, if I remember right, homosexuality was taken out of the DSM like 15-20 years ago. Before that it was classified as a mental illness. It is therefor obvious that homophobia wasn't classified as such at the time. It is rational to be scared by the mentally disturbed. After homosexuality was taken out, homophobia necessarily became a mental illness. Why be scared of something that is perfectly normal?

That is why I said it is currently a mental illness.

Which is why your response, to my reply, to your statement, to my post, clearly states...

Doc, it depends on what year your volume was printed.

If this goes on, we should just switch to who's on first. :>)

And guess who's stuck cleaning up after the elephants?

the same people stuck cleaning up after the donkeys. or rather having to live in it the american people

i never said there wasnt elephant crap i mearly pointed out the big ass pile the donkeys have left us over the 7 years of their growing majoritys. im more then ahppy to admit every one in washington belongs to the same party. the party of cushy job and kick backs

They are ALL to blame, but the Republicans scare me the most with their right-wing idiocy.

You think thats rude, you should see what some guy Jim Jones posted.

You think that's rude you should hear the filth being spouted at the "Values Voter Summit".

Summit hell, more like wading in a cesspool. Coffee break's over bigots, back on your heads.

That's rather rude.

Says the guy who sees fit to call someone "at the very least extremely mentally disturbed" based on which consenting adult they choose to have as a partner.

She is at an orgy. She is the designated teabag counter.

I think it depends on technique. But since they are often referred to in the plural form, I think they are considered two. Kind of like the split personalities of their owners.

It is always Halloween in BaggerVille. The sad part is that they aren't wearing costumes.

One idiot is better than 7369475246513546...or 100 Black Panthers (who don't agree wih Obama on most everything), okay fine.
Why did Beck have on that Natzi uinformed on the cover of his manifesto?

Why does Beck do anything he does? I think even he doesn't know anymore.

umm... it sounded like only a few people were clapping.

I see. The old "only a few people cheered so the stuff he says that could alarm people doesn't represent the majority of the attendees" defense.

If he wasn't expected to represent the views od a considerable part of the audience, then why the hell did they schedule him to speak?

OOPS, too late, look at the GOP candidates, which one of those ignorant homophobic bigots is fit to polish President Obama's shoes.

Please do not follow a sincere thoughtful post with liberal vomit.

Please do not follow a sincere thoughtful post with liberal vomit.

I am sorry, I have maligned Huntsman who is not an ignorant homophobic bigot. But he is running at 1.8% in the bagger primary. Come to think of it, is the GOP holding a Presidential primary this time?

Which of the rest of those NASTY pandering fools would you argue do NOT deserve that appellation?

Could it be the one who said creationism was a religious belief and not a scientific theory...oh wait, that didn't happen. So much for them not being ignorant.

Could it be the one who shouted down the filthy bagger crowd booing an American soldier...oh wait, that didn't happen. So much for not being homophobic bigots.

So I ask you again, which one of those clowns do you support.

Which one to you think is fit to polish President Obama's shoes?

Hate to tell you this steph, but iceman was just stating the same thing you said. Nothing liberal about it.

doctorsteph:

People like this will kill the Republican party

The Republican party is not yet dead, but it has a number of cancers eating at its core. I don't know if it can be saved.

President Reagan courted the so-called "Moral Majority"; consequently the GOP took a turn to the dark side and has tried to take the nation along with it. These vipers are the descendents of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, blessed in their endeavors by right-wing candidate after right-wing candidate.

Barry Goldwater tried to sound the alarm; the Republican party ignored the warning, and has been speeding downhill since then:

"The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
"I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate."

• September 1981
  

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."

• November 1994

I am a progressive radical feminist, and I want conservatives such as Goldwater back at the head of the Republican party. I want a loyal opposition, not a bunch of ditto-head praise jeezus fanatical do-nothing wholly-owned subsidiaries warming the seats on the other side of the aisle.

A very few real Republicans still exist, but the party is being systematically purged by the certifiably bat-@!$%# crazies. For those of you remaining, I suggest you pull the plug on old disease-riddled grandpa and go forth to rebuild a party you can take pride in claiming as your own.

I will be the among the first to greet you and support you, even if and when I disagree with you - which will most likely be often!

When fascism comes it will will be waving a flag and carrying a bible.

Looking at the "Values" Voter Summit, it is here.

There was a time that I voted Republican. I will NEVER vote for the filth running in the bagger primary. If the GOP wants my vote, it looks like they will need to hold their own primary instead of letting the bagger fool run it for them.

Next year I will vote straight (D) and be proud of it.

iceman6 Excellent!

Barry Goldwater is turning over in his grave.

I know of NO American family that shares this groups warped "values".

Disgusting.

Just because you have values...

And what UGLY little values they are proving to be.

Woo Hoo, Terry!!!

Terry Yoder, It probably wouldn't be his first time, does Larry Craig ring a bell?