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Want your kid to stop whatever dangerous/annoying/forbidden behavior he’s doing right now? Spanking will probably work — for now.
But be prepared for that same child to be more aggressive toward you and his siblings, his friends and his eventual spouse. Oh, and get ready for some other antisocial behaviors too.
A new analysis of two decades of research on the long-term effects of physical punishment in children concludes that spanking doesn’t work and can actually wreak havoc on kids’ long-term development
Children who are spanked may feel depressed and devalued, and their sense of self-worth can suffer. Harsh punishments can wind up backfiring because they can foster lying in children who are desperate to avoid being spanked. Later in life, physical punishment is linked to mental health problems including depression, anxiety and drug and alcohol use. There’s neuroimaging evidence that physical punishment may alter parts of the brain involved in performance on IQ tests and up the likelihood of substance abuse. And there’s also early data that spanking could affect areas of the brain involved in emotion and stress regulation.
Why Spanking Doesnt Work |
Article Source: TIME
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In some countries, spanking is not a choice. Durrant is currently living in Sweden, where she’s researching child and family policies and the evolution of that country’s law prohibiting physical discipline of children. In 1979, Sweden was the first country to pass such legislation; now 32 countries — including much of Europe, Costa Rica, Israel, Tunisia and Kenya — have a similar law.
Were you spanked?...Do you think it did harm? .Did you spank? .....Would you do it again if you could go back? What is your opinion?
- 2 votes
#1 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 1:00 PM ESTI was never one for giving corporal punishment to my children. I chased the boys around the yard with a broom a few times wishing I could catch up and connect with the bristles, but never was able - they were fast, and they would laugh and tell me to on it! Bratty.
- 4 votes
#2 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 1:17 PM EST
The key factor is “instant accountability”. Like wolves and dogs… swift attention-getting correction makes for lasting impressions. Some degree of rational common-sense is required to fit the circumstances. (my disclaimer) LOL.
I, plus every friend I know experienced this ‘blazing’ form of corporal punishment when youngsters---from both our parents and our teachers…. And we turned out okay… normal, balanced, and happy.…
It's all the hyper-sensitive kids nowadays, with all their various forms of mental-health disorders and prescription drug addictions that I am wondering about. What’s up with that???
- 5 votes
#3 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:10 PM ESTChemicals, and messing round with food additives and GM seeds and crops. Also the occasional not too swift doctor who prescribes after misdiagnosing.
- 3 votes
Yep I was Spanked, did it do any harm? Nah. If I have kids I probably will. Ive seen too many kids drive there parents insane while in the super markets. While they stand there confused about what to do - and the kid is still throwing a tantrum.
My father didnt deal with BS, If we did not listen the first time then we got the hand it was that simple. A firm hand is good enough to keep them in line, when talking just does not work.
- 7 votes
#4 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:12 PM ESTIt's insane that if we strike an adult, it's a crime but if we strike a child, it's discipline. Especially on the bottom! If it's something adults like when naked, it should not be experienced by a child.
If it works so well why can't we use it on our workers? Perhaps because they can vote?????????????
Your society will always be violent as long as its newest members are taught acts of violence are a solution to a problem.
- 4 votes
#5 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:31 PM ESTSpanking... the lazy parent's way of dealing with misbehavior!
- 7 votes
#6 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 3:14 PM ESTAre you saying that 'Drugs' are better? Or perhaps that... long, drawn-out discourse with a taunting five-year old has any benefit, other than to expose your own weakness in conviction?
Lazy and abusive parents do in fact, lash out with spontaneous uncontrolled anger… but, that isn’t what this is about… is it? Maybe some clarity here is needed here. A generalized statement will always spur controversy from the extreme opposing circumstantial variables.
Nothing fits all situations, all the time, but with this modern culture, nothing seems to work (generally speaking---drug addictions). Maybe it’s the parents fault and not the kids…? Maybe we should ‘walk-the-walk’ instead of ‘talk-the-talk‘?
- 1 vote
Dale 95,
Or perhaps that... long, drawn-out discourse with a taunting five-year old has any benefit, other than to expose your own weakness in conviction?
There are better ways of setting limits than a long, drawn-out discourse with a five year old.
The fact that you used the word "taunting", and your "own weakness in conviction" leads me to believe either out of frustration, anger or a sense of powerlessness, hitting seems the only option.
- 5 votes
Not at all. It's all the game that kids play. Finding out where the boundaries are---the limitations... like little scientists, always experimenting. Sometimes it's fun to play the game... other times--- NOT. LOL. I use to be a kid once, so I know.
- 1 vote
There are ways to set boundaries and limitations without hitting.
- 2 votes
Dah??? There are hundreds of both positive/negative and passive/active reinforcement techniques to use for training purposes.
My question to you is: With all of our modern-day sensitivity techniques in place, for codling the tender and delicate feelings of others…, why is it that personality disorders are suddenly exploding, at epidemic rates along with the prolific needs for such a profusion of pharmaceutical drugs.. just to gain control??? What does that indicate to you?
- 1 vote
why is it that personality disorders are suddenly exploding
I would disagree with you. I think the ability to diagnosis personality disorders is much more prevalent. I can look back at adults and friends around me decades ago, and recognize personality disorders that were in play, but never diagnosed or treated.
I remember whole families destroyed by a member who had a borderline personality disorder. Was she diagnosed? No. Was she treated? No....but the family was left in chaos with no explanation.
I can remember people who showed all the classic signs of depression but were never diagnosed. Would they have been helped with anti depressants, I would suspect so.
I had three kids in my high school senior class who committed suicide over a drop in their GPA. Could that have been prevented if diagnosed and treated, one will never know.
I don't believe that many of the so called "sensitivity techniques which coddle the tender and delicate feelings of others" is what's to blame for many of the problems we see., but it's certainly an easy scapegoat.
- 2 votes
Some of what, you said is true,
And some of my words, are true too….
And so we agree, to disagree,
About the varying, circumstantial degree….
I remember whole families destroyed by a member who had a borderline personality disorder.
In hushed tones from grandparents I recall hearing stories about suicides of relatives, and great uncles or cousins who were institutionalized, the aunt who lived alone with her cats and displayed hoarder like behavior. While I agree that anti-depressants are over-prescribed today I'm glad we're at least more open about our mental-health issues as a society and people have more avenues to pursue the help they need.
- 4 votes
Are you saying that 'Drugs' are better? Or perhaps that... long, drawn-out discourse with a taunting five-year old has any benefit, other than to expose your own weakness in conviction?
No, I'm saying that it take a lot of work to build the trust, love and respect that ultimately makes your child want to please you and do the good things that make the entire family happy. Trust me, if the proper ground-work is laid, this is the condition that exists between a parent and child. If that is the condition that exists, all that needs to be done with the child would be an explanation of why their behavior is unacceptable.
Hey, if we can train dogs without beating them... why can't we do the same with our children?
- 3 votes
("Hey, if we can train dogs without beating them... why can't we do the same with our children?")
Ah Hah! Excellent point. And that kind of basic, respectful, and empathetic understanding that is found in dog-training (proper) is exactly the same technique that works with training our kids… and it should be mandatory elementary training in our schools (sociology/ health/ language 101). A little less emphasis on calculus, et al, and a lot more hands-on experience in using common-sense communication techniques.
I can't count the number of times I've come across unruly dogs (and kids) that held their owners at-bay with fear, intimidation, and confusion. Some adults just can't relate, and are left desperately trying to bribe, goo-goo talk and plead for understanding from their dogs…, and their kids are standing by observing this!!! It becomes a joke of the most pathetic kind.
I don't advocate spanking at all, it's just another tool that has a specific purpose and needs to be dispensed with caution and control. Level headed common-sense---or the lack there of…, is the real problem with how we relate to our kids, not which damn tools we use. I don't remember ever having to spank my daughters… probably because they always knew that that particular tool was always 'handy'. (Pun intended. LOL)
- 3 votes
"Hey, if we can train dogs without beating them... why can't we do the same with our children?"
And therein is the root of the problem.
You can't teach old dogs new tricks, ...... regardless of whether you beat them or not.
And you can't teach children manners or to behave themselves and abide by the rules ... if you prolong said teaching until after they are old enough to "think for themselves" .... or ...... if you only attempt to teach them said if and when they are outside the home and in a public setting.
Punishing a child for doing something they knew they shouldn't have done will not affect their long-term personality. But punishing a child for something they didn't do or had no part of doing, will affect their long-term personality.
Being mean, hateful, spiteful, hurtful or embarrassing to a child, ...... that is perpetrated by their parent(s), siblings, guardians or peers, ........ for reasons the child has no control over nor knows the reasons why, ....... will also affect their long-term personality.
- 1 vote
SamC
Punishing a child for doing something they knew they shouldn't have done will not affect their long-term personality.
That depends on what you consider punishing.
- 3 votes
And that depends on what they shouldn't have done.
-----------
Being mean, hateful, spiteful, hurtful or embarrassing to a child, ...... that is perpetrated by their parent(s), siblings, guardians or peers, ........ for reasons the child has no control over nor knows the reasons why, ....... will also affect their long-term personality.
In regard to my above comment from #6.11, consider the “findings” of the following study that was reported in today’s news.
Study: Child abuse bigger threat than SIDS
Nearly 4,600 U.S. children were hospitalized with broken bones, traumatic brain injury and other serious damage caused by physical abuse in 2006, according to a new report.
Babies younger than one were the most common victims, with 58 cases per 100,000 infants. That makes serious abuse a bigger threat to infant safety than SIDS, or sudden infant death syndrome, researchers say in the report.
Based on data from the 2006 Kids' Inpatient Database, the last such numbers available, Leventhal's team found that 6 out of every 100,000 children under 18 were hospitalized with injuries ranging from burns to wounds to brain injuries and bone fractures. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46281207/ns/health-childrens_health/
Now if that study confirmed that “58 cases per 100,000 infants” and ”6 out of every 100,000 children under 18” had to be hospitalized in 2006 as a result of physical abuse by a parent or guardian ……. just how many children under 18 do you suppose there actually were that suffered inexcusable physical abuse by a parent or guardian but not serious enough to be and/or were never taken to a hospital?
- 1 vote
I never got spanked because I was Daddy's Princess. My father used to beat my younger brother senseless! He wound up drinking and drugging, but eventually turned his life around. I would give my daughters a swat on the butt when necessary, and they turned out fine.
- 3 votes
#7 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 3:28 PM ESTMy sister and I were both spanked. I turned out fine, my sister on the other had is having some major problems in life, and almost all of them are directly linked to her attitude.
- 4 votes
#9 - Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:02 PM ESTrescue dogs62, maybe your name is a clue to your wisdom and understanding about this issue. Anyone training an animal learns that consistancy trumps discipline, and that a properly trained animal who wishes to please the trainer, will only then give his best. So much of the "Bad parenting" is new parents parroting the poor example their parents provided. My parents used corporal punish with me, sucessful (in their eyes) because I was quiet and obedient, but at the expense my personal self-esteem, and the absence of a positive emotional bond with them. Was that a fair trade? I don't think so.
- 4 votes
#10 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 12:14 AM ESTGEEZER,
I agree with you. I watch the program The Nanny, and it always amazes me that she can walk into a family that is in total chaos, and leave with children that are well behaved, respectful, and a family that is functioning in harmony. Many of the homes she goes into have been using threats and corporal punishment with only limited results.
As I've rescued abused animals, my last was well behaved, but cringed flat on the floor when ever she saw a stick, racket, bat, or even if I moved my arm quickly. She was never comfortable with men walking behind her even 50 feet away, and it was the only blessing when she became totally blind that her fear level lessened.
Having worked in mental health I can't tell you the number of severely psychologically disturbed adults that, as Midnight Toker so aptly put it, had they ass beat as a youngster.
I am so concerned about the children that are growing up under the discipline being espoused by that man on the far religious right. His philosophy including switching an 8 mo old to instill discipline. The frightening things is that hundreds of thousands of his books have been sold.
- 5 votes
The key thing to remember is that there is no perfect parent. I have spanked my kids but I'm not much of an advocate. Calling someone lazy because they spank isn't very fair either just because you disagree with how to raise a child. I take my pre-teen kids running about 15-20 miles a week -- some parents look at me in horror and then others clap. Everyone is a little different. At some point kids get too big and then what are you going to do. My step-father took a belt to me but I think that is going too far. Some parents just reach out and react and that is wrong no matter which way you look at it but when a parent spends a decade telling you how useless you are that is about as bad.
Letting your kids stay up all night, not do their schoolwork or not do any chores will not help them get in the habit of setting goals and feeling a sense of accomplishment or feeling of belonging. I have seen a lot of this. I have seen plenty of people with some form of mental problems (real or imagined) who were never spanked
I think the key is setting boundaries, keeping in control of your own emotions and consistent discipline. This is not as easy as it seems. It is alos important to be able to apologize to your children when you are wrong which will happen.
- 4 votes
#11 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 12:26 AM ESTProbably the best parenting advice I can give is to spend quality time with your children and make them feel important. Teach them by sharing your goals and show them how to attain them. Even sometimes letting them see you fail can be a bonding and learning experience for them.
- 3 votes
YES, bellingham, Children (and adults) learn more by example that 'instruction'. "Do as I say, not as I do" just doesn't work.
- 3 votes
Thinking about lazy parenting...it isn't whether you spank your child or not. It's about how much you want your child in your life. Do you come home at the end of the day, spend time with your children looking over homework, visit the school and advocate for your children, and play with your children on the weekend; or are you the passive parent passing out on the couch while your children soak up the hours on the video games.
- 2 votes
My Mother spanked me up until I fought back and she couldn't handle it. It made her crazy. My
Dad was not a spanker. He hated the thought of spanking. But my sister and I had a headboard
light on our bed and when we were supposed to turn it of and go to sleep, we would take that
light and put it under our covers to read comic books. My Dad told us if we did it again he would
spank us. Well we did it and he did spank us. We screamed our heads off and Mom came
running into the room and made him stop. He never spanked me again. But one time when
Mom was at work and Dad was home with us, me and my sister were doing dishes and he came
into the kitchen and out his hands on my sister's shoulders and I physically attacked him and
told him to never touch her again. He went into his room and did not come out until Mom came
home. She told us that Dad thought I hated him for spanking us earlier. I think all that spanking
made me crazy. LOL.
#12 - Tue Feb 7, 2012 12:39 AM ESTOn rare occasions I would dole out a swift swat on the butt. Now, most of my sons AND daughters are "much" taller and stronger than yours (old fart) truly and, I "THANK GOD" I didn't traumatize them too much...they still like me!
- 4 votes
#13 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 4:20 AM ESTMy sister and I were constantly spanked, at least until we got too old for it to be effective, and we both turned out fine. These days, punishment seems little more than taking electronic devices away from a kid and putting him or her in a time-out.
Would be really interesting to find out if the study bothered to sort out the difference between spanking and beating - they are different. My dad never spanked my sister or me out of anger, and often we'd have to remind him of why he was spanking us (after we'd taken our time finding the paddle).
- 1 vote
#14 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 7:59 AM ESTMy sister and I were constantly spanked, at least until we got too old for it to be effective, and we both turned out fine.
I used to think I turned out fine as well. I mean, I was a fairly productive member of society, and wasn't an axe-murderer or anything like that. However, in later years I began to realize that I had anti-social tendencies that were most likely caused by the "spankings" I received as a child.
spanking and beating - they are different.
I'm sorry, the difference is purely subjective. One person's spanking is another person's beating. What was thought of as "spanking" by the parent has many times crossed the line into permanent physical and psychological damage. The problem is, there is no mechanism that prevents the crossing of such a line, and all too often, it isn't revealed to law enforcement until a trip to the emergency room... at which point it's too late.
- 3 votes
#15 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 10:56 AM ESTWhat did you do to help yourself when you came to the realization that spankings were the cause of your anti-social tendencies?
Darwin --- A cure for your antisocial spanking-trauma. Get a dog... and love on it like there was no tomorrow (walks… more walks… and more, nice-long-walks), and you'll soon get many good lickings... instead of spankings. LOL. It works for me!!!
What did you do to help yourself when you came to the realization that spankings were the cause of your anti-social tendencies?
Well, I'm not so sure I have received any "help," per se. I have come to live with it. I still don't like people very much. I'm sure there are other factors at play here, i.e. being an army-brat as well didn't help (i.e. moving at the drop of a hat doesn't bode well for building good strong relationships); however, I am also sure that the beatings ("spanking" or even more euphemistically, "paddlings") didn't help any.
A cure for your antisocial spanking-trauma. Get a dog...
Thanks! I have a dog and I love her. In fact, generally I love and respect animals... humans, not so much...
What about the long, long walks... where you follow them into their “Reality”?
Just having a dog... as a pet... misses out completely, on the whole magic part of exploring other worlds.
I don't want to pretend I know the answers but here is my experience.
I can remember my step-father telling me to touch me toe's and don't cry and I would only get one belt. So I would clinch my teeth. I can also remember him much larger than myself beating me up unfairly when I was 17. I don't have any hostility really towards him. I think he was wrong. I also think that parents learn from theirs but hopefully their is an evolution. I won't do that to my kids.
My brother, on the other hand, did not handle things the same way and still holds a lot of hostility towards my parents.
Two different people and each person handle the situation differently. Can we chalk everything up to statistics and studies. How much does genetics play a part in it?
Honestly, I don't really know.
Bellingham,
I don't mean this to sound like a challenge, but you mean that you hold no animosity or anger against some who beat you unfairly until you were 17?
He did not beat me until I was 17. He beat me once when I was 17. He back-handed me a few times. I don't really have any anger other than thinking he was wrong. I probably got the belt two or three times a year from the time I was 9 until 12.
Getting back handed like that was just completely out of place. Getting the belt was more controlled and wasn't just getting randomly beaten and I probably deserved some kind of discipline.
Things are more complicated. It was my mother who actually instigated the discipline. If it was just him I am not sure if he would have bothered. My parents had their own strengths and weaknesses. They did some things well and some things not so well. I don't hold that against them. That may be just a personality issue. I am built that way. The funny thing is that I am just as strong as ever when it comes to standing up for what I believe in. I don't know that I am less empowered because of it.
Yes, I was spanked and I thank my parents for having static boundaries. I was maybe spanked a half dozen times my whole entire childhood, but I understood at that point where the line that should not be crossed existed.
I would take the lessons of that over the modern day version of "parenting" anyday. In fact, in twenty years if you compare how well prepared the children who where spanked vs those that were allowed to run around without consequences, I would be willing to wager that the "disciplined" kids end up being far better adjusted adults than the the "undisciplined" ones.
- 1 vote
#16 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 12:55 PM ESTWatchTheOtherHand,
You are making a comparison between children who were spanked vs those that were allowed to run around without consequences, as if those were the only two options., and they absolutely aren't. You can have a child with self discipline and self respect without hitting.
As an aside, just because someone says, " this is what happened to me (could be anything" and I turned out fine" doesn't mean they turned out fine. As a therapist, nurse and just general person, some people with the greatest issues, describe themselves as fine.
We usually aren't the best assessors of our own mental health. There's something called Johari's Window,
I don't remember the exact details, but basically it divides our psyche into 4 areas, one area are those parts of our personality that is known to myself and others, i.e. I'm a softy for animals.
There's a part that I know, but I don't let anyone else know, i.e. I'm cruel to my dog (not true)
There's a part of me that others see, and I am blind to i.e. (I can't give a personal example because I don't know), but I know another who is so CONTROLLING it's pathetic, and he would absolutely deny it, nor recognize it in himself (fortunately I didn't marry him, lol)
The fourth is that part of the personality that no one is aware of.
The object of therapy is to reduce the size of three and four so the person becomes more self aware, and can work on issues.
There are some people who have been raised with a fairly heavy hand, who may have anger issues, depression, difficulty in connecting, control issues, but don't recognize it in themselves.
I'm always suspicious when someone tells me," I was beaten daily with a belt to keep me in line, and I turned out fine."
Sometimes this becomes apparent when interviewing couples separately. How one partner describes himself, or picks out adjectives from a list which he believes represents himself, will be TOTALLY different than how the spouse describes him, or which adjectives she may pick out, and vice versa.
Now I'll take my therapist cap off, and won't charge a dime, lol.
- 2 votes
#17 - Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:21 PM ESTYou are making a comparison between children who were spanked vs those that were allowed to run around without consequences, as if those were the only two options., and they absolutely aren't.
EXACTLY!! IMO, if you get to the point where you feel spanking is the only option you have for discipline... it is probably because of your own failures as a parent up to that point.
- 1 vote
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